Explosives and train cars

[steelwave42]

I know some of you have heard about the explosives found on the beach in ocmd at 50th and 12th street. Does anyone have any info on if there are more? Or how they got into the ocean. It seems like the town dealt with it the best they could, but to have dangers like that right in our playground, AND during our best season, should be taken quite seriously, and being that we are in the ocean almost daily, we in particular should be informed.

The other thing I heard about was the 600 train cars that oc is trying to buy. As of now they said the plan is to build an artificial reef just off the coast. I read an article which said it will greatly benefit the fisherman and ecological aspect... I don't see how putting all that steel in a natural environment such as the ocean can do any good. I was confused because they didn't say a word how it would effect the waves, or our health. Does anyone know if it would effect the waves and conditions one way or another. Cuz if it kills the breaks, there is really no reason for me to stay living here, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who would get up and leave if the surf got ruined.

What do you all think? :confused:

[Swellinfo]

The other thing I heard about was the 600 train cars that oc is trying to buy. As of now they said the plan is to build an artificial reef just off the coast. I read an article which said it will greatly benefit the fisherman and ecological aspect... I don't see how putting all that steel in a natural environment such as the ocean can do any good. I was confused because they didn't say a word how it would effect the waves, or our health. Does anyone know if it would effect the waves and conditions one way or another. Cuz if it kills the breaks, there is really no reason for me to stay living here, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who would get up and leave if the surf got ruined.
What do you all think? :confused:

Wow, I never heard of this. I'd like to find out more info. Most likely this would affect the surf, but it depends on how far offshore, and how deep from the ocean surface. I would suspect this would definitely affect the surf - most likely not in a good way, unless there was some intelligent purpose in contructing the reef condusive for good surf. Is this published anywhere online?

[steelwave42]

I read about it in this weeks dispatch (the oc newspaper). Check it out.

[brasco]

check with the surfrider foundation chapter in ocmd. they should have more info on the plan

brasco

[South Bethany]

I know some of you have heard about the explosives found on the beach in ocmd at 50th and 12th street. Does anyone have any info on if there are more? Or how they got into the ocean. It seems like the town dealt with it the best they could, but to have dangers like that right in our playground, AND during our best season, should be taken quite seriously, and being that we are in the ocean almost daily, we in particular should be informed.


The other thing I heard about was the 600 train cars that oc is trying to buy. As of now they said the plan is to build an artificial reef just off the coast. I read an article which said it will greatly benefit the fisherman and ecological aspect... I don't see how putting all that steel in a natural environment such as the ocean can do any good. I was confused because they didn't say a word how it would effect the waves, or our health. Does anyone know if it would effect the waves and conditions one way or another. Cuz if it kills the breaks, there is really no reason for me to stay living here, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who would get up and leave if the surf got ruined.

.

What do you all think? :confused:

Back in the day, (up until the early 70's) the national guard used to fly radio controlled small aircraft up and down the coast and fire at them from both the coast and boats. U mostly just find shell casings but somehow a lot of unexploded stuff ended up on the ocean bottom. for the most part they are rusted through and dead,


w/ reagard to the train cars its already been done up in delaware and other places. anything hard on the ocean bottom becomes habitat for plants and fish. its put in deep enough water that has no effect on waves. Putting them in anything shallow enough to affect waves would be a navigational hazard

[Swellinfo]

its put in deep enough water that has no effect on waves. Putting them in anything shallow enough to affect waves would be a navigational hazard
This statement is not true!

The following shows how deep waves travel underneath the ocean surface with relation to the wave period:

The equation for the depth a wave reaches underneath the surface with respect to wave period is:

Depth(ft) = Period*Period * 2.56ft , where period is in seconds.

10 sec period => 256 ft
12 sec period => 369 ft.
14 sec period => 502 ft.
16 sec period => 655 ft.
18 sec period => 829 ft.
20 sec period => 1024 ft

The trains may not be elevating the surface that much, so may not influence the waves that much, but as you can see by the equation above, that any longer period swell will feel the bottom pretty far off the east coast. The continental shelf some 20 miles off the coast has a depth of near 420ft.

[South Bethany]

you're right... saying they wil have "no effect" was wrong. What i meant was that in 30-40 feet of water the waves won't be shoaled (broken) by the reef. Whether such a structure would have any noticable effect on wave heights on the beach is beyond me. There are even potential beneficial effects of offshore reefs if the swell lines are focussed a bit through convex refraction when they pass over the reef and the resulting a-frames increase wave height behind the reef. Plenty of spots in SoCal have higher wave heights than surrounding area where offshore reefs focis swell.

[Swellinfo]

you're right... saying they wil have "no effect" was wrong. What i meant was that in 30-40 feet of water the waves won't be shoaled (broken) by the reef. Whether such a structure would have any noticable effect on wave heights on the beach is beyond me. There are even potential beneficial effects of offshore reefs if the swell lines are focussed a bit through convex refraction when they pass over the reef and the resulting a-frames increase wave height behind the reef. Plenty of spots in SoCal have higher wave heights than surrounding area where offshore reefs focis swell.

good point. this could create a refraction process that could focus swell into particular areas. It could either help or hurt spots. create new ones, destroy old ones... we need more details.

[wildbillstikihut]

The train cars will not be dumped into any random area off the beach. They will go to one or more of the areas that have been set aside for artifical reefs. The closest area is Kelly's reef about 1 mile off 28th st, the other reef sites are farther out and to the south. The OC Reef Foundation has dropped everything from concrete pipe, military tanks, to old boats in these areas. Everything that would be hamful to the enviorment is removed. If you have ever dived a wreck, you would see how it transforms an almost lifeless area into a highly populated reef community. This will not have any impact, good or bad on surfing.

[Swellinfo]

The train cars will not be dumped into any random area off the beach. They will go to one or more of the areas that have been set aside for artifical reefs. The closest area is Kelly's reef about 1 mile off 28th st, the other reef sites are farther out and to the south. The OC Reef Foundation has dropped everything from concrete pipe, military tanks, to old boats in these areas. Everything that would be hamful to the enviorment is removed. If you have ever dived a wreck, you would see how it transforms an almost lifeless area into a highly populated reef community. This will not have any impact, good or bad on surfing.

cool. thanks for the info. I still am not going to sway away from the fact that there could be an impact on the deep water swells. Like South Bethany mentioned there could be a refraction influence which will bend the offshore swells into certain areas.

For any OCMD locals, there is a reason why the 48th street area tends to pick up swells better than other areas and that has to do with the offshore bathymetry focusing the energy into that mid oc area, especially on North swells.

[steelwave42]

cool. thanks for the info. I still am not going to sway away from the fact that there could be an impact on the deep water swells. Like South Bethany mentioned there could be a refraction influence which will bend the offshore swells into certain areas.

For any OCMD locals, there is a reason why the 48th street area tends to pick up swells better than other areas and that has to do with the offshore bathymetry focusing the energy into that mid oc area, especially on North swells.

Interesting, I wondered why midtown seemed to pick up swells a bit better.

[mikedub]

I found an old public notice from the Army Corps in 2002 about Kelly's reef and it had a crude map on it and from what I could tell Kelly's reef is about a half mile off Assateague not at 28th.

[morninglines22]

I took a scuba class from the guy that runs Sea Colony aquasports in Severna Park, and i'm pretty sure he had mentioned something about having a hand in creating the reef that's offshore of the Assateague/inlet area (if I remember correctly). His name's John Kiser, he seems to kind of be the "Duke" of scuba diving if thats possible, and he's essentially just a badass dude who loves the water. I'm sure he'd share any knowledge he has of it if you asked him, his email's dive@seacolony.net

[wildbillstikihut]

Kelly's reef is off 28th st. There are several area of artifical reef pyramids and and old apple barge. When the croaker are off the beach you will see the party boats working that area.

[mikedub]

http://www.nab.usace.army.mil/Regulatory/PublicNotice/Worcester/02-62089.pdf
Go down to the map at the bottom, it's not at 28th street.

[wildbillstikihut]

I was wrong, Kelly's reef is just south of little gull and about 3 miles off the north end of Assategue. Purnell's reef is off 28th st.

[Swellinfo]

i just looked at that chart.

Its not that deep out there...

At first I was thinking that was what we call the shoals off the Ocean City inlet, but thats much further out. That place might break on a big long period swell (which rarely happens). Not at Kellys Reef, but just north at Little Gull Bank, where the depths go below 20ft.

Any mariners here want to verify? or keep it a secret?

[wildbillstikihut]

There are areas out there as shallow as 15 feet. I was out there fishing on a day with 8-10 ft swells and you could see that it started to line up and get steeper in that area, but it wasnt even close to breaking. It would really have too be huge for it to break out there. I would not want to go through the inlet on a day like that.

[Swellinfo]

Ya, i'm thinking if there were ever any Giant swells like they get in the north pacific that place could break, but it just those just dont happen around here.

One of the areas, where my forecast knowledge could be increased is in learning the different bathymetry patterns of different breaks. Most bottom data is available out there, but I believe you have to pay for most hi-res coastal charts. Anyone know any different? I've done the searching before, but I cant remember exactly.

[wildbillstikihut]

find someone with the charts on gps or on paper. most fisherman have these. cant be too hard to find on the internet too.

[PowerUser]

http://chartmaker.ncd.noaa.gov/staff/charts.htm

is either free, or low cost.


ACOE survey's are very precise.. to the foot. Whole area was just done for beach replenishment (nearshore).. and the outer reaches are fairly well surveyed for pumping sand back on...

[steelwave42]

I was wrong, Kelly's reef is just south of little gull and about 3 miles off the north end of Assategue. Purnell's reef is off 28th st.

From what I've read and after some conversations w/ people around town I'm pretty sure the plan is to add to the existing reef at 28th. But with the volume of cars, I highly doubt thats the only place. One thing for sure is that the plan is to ADD to an already existing structure. This plan is in it's first steps and not much info has been given. I've searched, only vague legalities at this point. But my point of asking this particular question is to bring it to everyones attention so we can do our research as well.

Thanks for all the response and keep digging because I do believe that something will come out of this in the future.

[South Bethany]

i just looked at that chart.

Its not that deep out there...

At first I was thinking that was what we call the shoals off the Ocean City inlet, but thats much further out. That place might break on a big long period swell (which rarely happens). Not at Kellys Reef, but just north at Little Gull Bank, where the depths go below 20ft.

Any mariners here want to verify? or keep it a secret?

Im no mariner but theres a shoal about 2 miles off state line/no. ocean city that breaks on very large swells...visible from upstairs in fenwick. No idea whats its called.

[PowerUser]

http://ocs-spatial.ncd.noaa.gov/encdirect/viewer.htm

better link... brings up a nautical chart viewer. More detailed surveys are available than this... I'll keep looking.