Wavehouse Ocean City, MD????????????

[wavehunter]

So,


I've been talking to alot of my friends who have the desire AND means, including myself, to start such a thing and the only concern that has come up is the OFFSEASON........... bleh. So. What is everyone's take on how well/poor it would do? First off, I welcome all oppinions and look forward to everything that this thread might start.

[Jettylife521]

Make one in NJ too!!! :D No offense but wouldn't want to travel 2 hours to MD from NJ to "ride" an artificial wave...:(

[mr67240]

ive been dreaming for one of those since i was a kid. Hit one up on the Royal Carib. ship this aug. It was a bit more laid back than the 8" "black hole" in the caymans I attempted to ride. That s*** was serious, with a lip that would chew u up and spit u out like a mean toilet. Its defiantly a whole new world on one of those crazy ass machines. It think with enough effort and financial backing (and maybe a little connect w/ the mayor) you could make it happen. Even with the smaller crowds in the off season, there would be ways to keep up your revenues. But, what do i know, I'm just a college kid....

[OceanCityBB]

That would be freaking awesome. Do you have any ideas how boring it can get with a week long lull in swells here in OC? I would be the first one in line, make it happen.

[wavehunter]

After living here ALL of my post graduate life, I do have an idea how boring it can get..... hence the idea..... the only place we have found enough property would be where the old "DIESEL" night club was, but they are reluctant to sell.........

[jimbo_robinson]

that would be the ****. I would love it, I know plenty of people that would use it.

[Swellinfo]

i agree the big question is if there is enough population that would use it in the off season...

I'd guess it wouldnt do too well in the off season, but maybe the summer season is enough?

[epidemicepic]

i think you would do good buisness all year given the growing surfer population around here, i live about an hour from OC and i would be there all the time if you guys built it!! btw... are we talking a standing wave, or a full on japanese style ocean dome?

[wavehunter]

Talking about a standing wave such as the likes of the Wavehouse in Mission Beach, CA. After we've done the cost analysis and everything, assuming that we could get the property that we need, it unfortunately would hinge on whether or not we could acquire an alcohol license. As lame as that sounds, it would be pretty much the only way that it could possibly be profitable.

[epidemicepic]

haha i dont blame you for the liquor licence, what is that like 3/4 of the profit for any buisness in OC ?? .... it might be hard to get though if your talking about drunkards dropping in on shallow standing waves hahaha.

[wavehunter]

It's called a flow rider. They're alot of fun. The major difference between a flow rider and surfing is that when you're playing around with the flow rider you've got no fins. The boards are a whole lot like a skimboard but much more narrow. Some have bindings and some don't, depends on your skill level. All in all it's alot of fun but when it comes down to it, it's no substitute for the real thing, but it's definitely a VERY CLOSE 2nd!!!!

[mikedub]

There was a thread like this on surfingoc or delsurf a while ago and I think someone found info. on the cost of owning one of these and it was in millions with insurance and everything. So if you can afford it, I say do it up.

[steelwave42]

Talking about a standing wave such as the likes of the Wavehouse in Mission Beach, CA. After we've done the cost analysis and everything, assuming that we could get the property that we need, it unfortunately would hinge on whether or not we could acquire an alcohol license. As lame as that sounds, it would be pretty much the only way that it could possibly be profitable.

That I can understand... it is OC afterall, the town rich on booze. BUT, that's all good, I say do whatever you can to cover the cost of the flowrider. Looks pretty fun, I'd give it a go. I've heard from a friend of mine opening a bar that getting a liquor liscense is a little bit tougher around here, but I think being that your providing a place to enhance the "surf culture" of this place, you would be alright. Understand that your going to help out OTHER peoples businesses along with the tourist draw. Not much not to like for the money people of this town.

I do really think you would make enough when the season was on. Think about it, that's what pretty much EVERYONE does down here. Right now this place is shut down, but on season you'd have loads of tourists lined up for a ready made wave, and if they're parents could get all bombed up in the meantime, it's a sure shot... go for it man. And I do think you would get some people in the off season, just not nearly as much. Prob enough to stay open tho. I'd definately be there during flat spells, either riding it or getting loaded watching people eat it. DO IT. Good Luck!!!

[Carson]

After living here ALL of my post graduate life, I do have an idea how boring it can get..... hence the idea..... the only place we have found enough property would be where the old "DIESEL" night club was, but they are reluctant to sell.........

What was it before Diesel? I'm old and way out of the Nightclub scene in OC.

[Carson]

Talking about a standing wave such as the likes of the Wavehouse in Mission Beach, CA. After we've done the cost analysis and everything, assuming that we could get the property that we need, it unfortunately would hinge on whether or not we could acquire an alcohol license. As lame as that sounds, it would be pretty much the only way that it could possibly be profitable.

That unfortunate that you can't come up with a viable business plan that doesn't include servicing alcohol. The liability insurance on this is going to be through the roof to begin with. Have you talked to any underwriters to see if they would cover this venture if you served alcohol? Do you know if any of the other standing wave places serve alcohol? How about making it a part of a sports complex with batting cages, laser tag, video games, etc? Something that you could draw kids for birthday parties and that type of thing. You could serve food there and you can make some money with that. Not booze money, mind you, but real money to cover some of the expenses. Maybe the standing wave would be better as a part of an existing water park, like the one at Jolly Rogers. Maybe work out a deal with someone like that to bring in your equipment and rent space from them. You will have the captive audience from the water park guests, some of whom may choose to pluck down the extra money to try out the wave.

Just a few ideas for you.

[CharlieInOC]

I seem to remember something about Six Flags considering openning a water park, which may have included a wave machine in West OC or somewhere around St. Martins, a couple of years ago. I don't think the #s worked out for them. I would think a location like the old Diesal Niteclub would be to expensive from the Real Estate investment required. I know of a major wavepool in Japan that just closed because profit margins where never met. This would require a serious committment and would be quite risky as far as a business idea. Power to you, but my take would be if it wasn't a really well done park, people would become tired of it quickly.

[South Bethany]

So,


I've been talking to alot of my friends who have the desire AND means, including myself, to start such a thing and the only concern that has come up is the OFFSEASON........... bleh. So. What is everyone's take on how well/poor it would do? First off, I welcome all oppinions and look forward to everything that this thread might start.

there are already plans for one from the rumors i hear...

[wavehunter]

Time will tell, there a ton of obstacles to overcome and insurance is just the tip of the iceberg. It's hard to run a business that makes 90% of its income in 5 months out of the year. Anyone who has a business in Ocean City can attest to that. Ocean City requires ridiculous insurance coverage ($2M liability minimum) and covering costs in about 150 days per year is close to impossible, but hey, there are a ton of businesses.... my friends, who make it work, so like I said, time will tell.

[tommyh]

$2million in liability is not very much coverage if I were you having something like that I would want a lot more. You should have atleast $300,000 to a million just driving a round. Good luck finding insurance if you are serving alcohol, no insurance company in their right mind would give you coverage becuase the likely hood of someone breaking their neck on the wave after a few drinks is extremely high, even if they know what they are doing. Carson's idea about having batting cages, go carts, etc sounds a lot more viable.

[wavehunter]

$2million in liability is not very much coverage if I were you having something like that I would want a lot more. You should have atleast $300,000 to a million just driving a round. Good luck finding insurance if you are serving alcohol, no insurance company in their right mind would give you coverage becuase the likely hood of someone breaking their neck on the wave after a few drinks is extremely high, even if they know what they are doing. Carson's idea about having batting cages, go carts, etc sounds a lot more viable.

Obviously there would be "bouncers" who would use their better judgment just like every other similar establishment in the area. Ideally, alcohol is for the dining aspect, not so you can get tanked and then go kill yourself on the flowrider. I mean, it works out in a handful of other places around the country, but I think that the serious barrier to entry is the seasonality of OC.

[wavehunter]

I don't know if any of you have been to the Wavehouse in Mission Beach, CA, but they serve loads of alcohol, probably as much as let's say The Paddock on a summer night, but I don't think I've ever seen anyone who was drinking ride the wave, nor do I think that they would allow it.

[siestasurf]

The only way for it to be profitable enough to stay open would be to serve alcohol, and have a food menu. A mirror image of the Wave House in mission beach would be the best way to go. As for the seasonality, If you make it indoors or have a roof that opens for the summer and closes for the winter you could draw in more people during the off season. Think about how many events the wavehouse hosts in San Diego, given they have a way larger population, but if you could start something like that here it would do good, especailly during the summer. The alcohol and the people using the flow rider would have to be completly seperate, almost like having a resturant that has a front view of the flowrider that would draw people into watch and spend money.

[wavehunter]

The only way for it to be profitable enough to stay open would be to serve alcohol, and have a food menu. A mirror image of the Wave House in mission beach would be the best way to go. As for the seasonality, If you make it indoors or have a roof that opens for the summer and closes for the winter you could draw in more people during the off season. Think about how many events the wavehouse hosts in San Diego, given they have a way larger population, but if you could start something like that here it would do good, especailly during the summer. The alcohol and the people using the flow rider would have to be completly seperate, almost like having a resturant that has a front view of the flowrider that would draw people into watch and spend money.

Exactly, I'm happy to see that someone has finally grasped my vision for this. We're still looking at about a $5M investment, but I can't think of any better way to use the very little land that is left here in OC.

[Jettylife521]

Why not make one up here in Jersey? ALOT OF TOURISTS IN SUMMER especially Seaside, Pt. Pleasant, and Belmar, and I bet that with the surfing/bodyboarding community up here that'll have enough $$$ to pay expenses through 5-6 months. Plus there's more land I'd think compared to OC (never been down there)?

[surfingoc]

Might want to talk to these guys if you can get the capital for and investment like this.

http://www.surfingthemag.com/news/surfing-pulse/virginia-flowrider-122607/

[tyrone]

It seems to me a little like batting cages, it would be cool to use it as practice for the real thing, but the novelty could definitely wear off after a while. Its a bit of a risky idea, ie. how much will it cost to maintain & possiblle liability but weighed against potential popularity and an utter lack of competition it may not be a bad idea. Venture capitalists would go for it, so what are you?

- Food for thought, micro-brewery in OC would do awesome! maybe combine the two and you're golden. the nearest brewery is in what Rehoboth? Dogfishhead does incredible business all year round. granted the crowd from rehoboth is mostly d.c., the oc crowd is more Bmore/Pennsylvania. There is most definitely a growing crowd that would be interested in locally brewed beers.

[MDSurfer]

If you've got 5 mil to burn, why not put it into artificial reefs? Then the city could put meters on all 145+ streets and even institute mandatory beach ankle tags (pay as you go) like they do in Jersey? http://www.flowrider.com/ sounds attractive, but why would anyone want to pay for what should by its very nature be free? Moreover, once you introduce the "pay" factor, it's unlikely to ever be free again. And honestly, how much can you expect to reap from your 5m investment, and how long with that take to come to fruition?

Typhoon lagoon at Disney (a surge wave rather than a standing wave) runs somewhere around $63 per day (normal hours) and considerably higher for the early hours surf session (still restricted to before 10am) when you are allowed a certain wave count, and no more. And honestly speaking, the wave's not much to speak of either.

[turtletheshaper]

Check out surfparks. apparently they are building one of these in NYC when they get the one in FL going.

http://www.surfparks.com/

[DavidOlya]

I have to agree with a few others. I would love to see this happen,and so would alot of others. If you can make it indoors during the winter, it would be a significant boost towards making OC a year round place.:)

[Zeus]

This is a good idea. The wavehouse in Japan only closed because they built it right across from the beach i thought. which would kind of happen here but when the swells don't come through it would be great. I would go with the idea of adding it on to Jolly Rogers or something.

[jimbo_robinson]

To have a seperate area for this is never going to work because it won't make enough money. It will for 3 months, but for the rest of the time your screwed. There are not enough locals for this to work out in the off season. The only way that it would work would be somewhere like Jolly Rogers. Maybe they would put it as a seperate thing. So it would be part of the park, but a seperate fee. I love the idea and know I would use it alot. I have never tried it, but it looks like alot of fun.Hopefully this all can happen

[siestasurf]

There's a LARGE indoor park that's been in progress for a couple of years and it's close.

The pool is 28K sq ft and will trump what Ocean Dome produced. Considering that was built in '92 the technology easily delivers.

In regard to the Wavehouse. The application that is in a "Wavehouse" is calkled the "Waveloch". It is also a sheet wave like the Flowrider. Just a formed pool to create the hook and the barrel. Some should remember when it was on the Swatch Tour around the globe with Slater, Haukennson, Chris MIller, Bryan, Fletcher etc etc. Quite a while before
MB.

Anyway, Flowrider reps the Wavelochs and should give you all the info. Keep in mind that the Wavehouse is a Franchise and strict adherence to thier program is demanded. Unless they changed. I think Franchise agreemnet was 1.2 million the last time I talked to them. Also, Buddy Jenkins is installing an indoor sheetwave. You may want to follow that up.

We will not have a sheetwave so there's

Feasibility is the key. F everything else until you know you can do it on the property you have an agreement on. And if you have 5 mill....form an LLC and then a holding because when the dotted line forms the money seems to dwindle in regards to risk capital. There's a reason there are Qualified and non qualified investors.
If I knew what I know now I'd be close to opening a year in advance.

FEASIBILITY. The numbers tell you everything.


Truitt, are you saying that a ocean dome style surf park is planned for ocean city, md? When and where? And Jolly Rogers(Buddy Jenkins) is puttng in a waveloch like the wavehouse or a flowrider?

[lostintubes]

man i love to have on i would use one everyday if i could and in the summer time i am sure plenty of tourist would use it so get enough money from there but man i would be on that everyday

[brasco]

absolutely. you should look into space in west ocean city around the marinas... any property in town is most likely going to be cost prohibitive. have you looked into the insurance required on a venture of this magnitude?

anywho, good luck. if it goes through, i'll be there to support

brasco

[wang]

Truitt: when and where? what paper? don't remember seeing anything like that. I don't think Buddy is that risky either.... I used to work for him

[kaisoul]

If you make it successful then you can turn it into a franchise and I'll buy one up here in Jersey. I don't have the time to start and develop another business, but I would buy a well oiled franchise. Just make sure you give it a really cool name.:D

[SurfnWayne]

Cool. I was just interested. I hadn't heard anything about that. If Buddy Jenkins is that far ahead on developing a project of this caliber..... then I would say that anyone else that wants to build one is going to have a real run for his money.

[tom slick]

Build it, they will come!

[OBlove]

Has anybody been on a Flowrider? just curious

It's not that fun. I surfed the opening to the Flowrider in mission beach years ago and when I first got on it felt like I was snow boarding. Rattling, thumpy and at first, nothing like surfing. After I got dumped a few times and I figured it out, I had fun, but it was like skimming. Anyways, it will not survive in OCMD. Places with hi population could hold such a thing. Not around here. No way at all. Your better off opening a Piggly Wiggly. That would rock all of oc!

[Carson]

Your better off opening a Piggly Wiggly. That would rock all of oc!

And would make it easier to give directions.

Just go down the road a piece, make a left at The Pig..... :D