wind farms

[ritecoastsurfer3]

what will happen to the surf if/when wind farms are placed off our beaches?

[iceybeatzjosh]

nothing
_

[Swellinfo]

i'm not sure what kind of structures they are. if they are big structures that go down in depth below sea level, then they could act as breakwaters, blocking swell in some areas.

[ritecoastsurfer3]

bluewaterwind.com for example

[goin_retro]

wind farms are for pu$$ies

[Swellinfo]

bluewaterwind.com for example

it looks to me like a lot of the structure is just floating on the surface of the water - like a big buoy - , which i dont think would block too much wave energy. so thats good for everyone.

i checked out that site. pretty cool, i'm glad delaware finally decided to give the wind farms a go.

[goin_retro]

i checked out that site. pretty cool

the video on the homepage is awesome (surreal)

[iceybeatzjosh]

that is a good investment.

[Darealm]

i checked out that site. pretty cool, i'm glad delaware finally decided to give the wind farms a go.

Me too. I am from DE and all the state is known for is being the first state to sign the declaration of independence (which no one outside of DE knows).
Now DE is also known for being the first state to develop offshore wind power.

[ritecoastsurfer3]

if they were spread apart like in the video on the homepage but went to the bottom would they block swell? or maybe it could break a swell up and the beach in front will have a-frames all the time? i mean other than this year it's hard enough to get a good size swell around here and it they get shredded to nothing rolling into the beach that would really suck i guess it depends on how wide the field is?

[goin_retro]

The best part of the video that is on the homepage is the couple of clips they show where there is no wind and none are spinning. Very productive.

[Prey4Surf]

I boo wind farms and ask that no one support them.

...


Because I work for a solar panel company.

[goin_retro]

CO2 emissions by energy type:
http://www.iaea.org/Publications/Booklets/Development/Figures/fig_18.jpg


Some food for thought from WIRED magazine article a month or two back:
Intro (http://www.wired.com/science/planetearth/magazine/16-06/ff_heresies_intro)
Nuclear Power Section (http://www.wired.com/science/planetearth/magazine/16-06/ff_heresies_08nuclear)

[Swellinfo]

I boo wind farms and ask that no one support them.
...
Because I work for a solar panel company.

There's room for both. I was just watching a news report on how google powers their entire business through green energy. Were talking about one of the most technologically advanced businesses in the world. All of their buildings have solar panels on the top, which i believe is the chief resource of their energy.

And they were able to show that using renewable energy was indeed cost effective, as they spent less money then they would have otherwise.

[Swellinfo]

wondering when we are going to make proper use of the ocean currents - one of the greatest sources of energy available. i'm guessing, the biggest hurdle here is expense

[Prey4Surf]

wondering when we are going to make proper use of the ocean currents - one of the greatest sources of energy available. i'm guessing, the biggest hurdle here is expense


How would you harness such an energy?

I think its in the same category as geothermal energy. There are big engineering hurdles we need to over come.

[Prey4Surf]

CO2 emissions by energy type:
http://www.iaea.org/Publications/Booklets/Development/Figures/fig_18.jpg


Some food for thought from WIRED magazine article a month or two back:
Intro (http://www.wired.com/science/planetearth/magazine/16-06/ff_heresies_intro)
Nuclear Power Section (http://www.wired.com/science/planetearth/magazine/16-06/ff_heresies_08nuclear)


That graph, what are the inner blue bars representing? During the manufacturing process solar panels, there is a carbon foot print. But in application they are zero emission, even the generators that convert the energy from the solar panels to usable energy don't emit anything.

The only danger they pose is there is a certain type of solar panel that a company name Solar One makes that uses an extremely effective but toxic chemical for the photovoltaic process. But they offer free to all customers clean up in the event of a breakage.

[Swellinfo]

How would you harness such an energy?

I think its in the same category as geothermal energy. There are big engineering hurdles we need to over come.

pretty straight forward. its analogous to damns and wind farms.
The ocean currents create a force against some sort of resistance - this is captured and distributed into energy.

But, i agree the cost of engineering is the hold back here, but I can't imagine a better source of energy.

[Prey4Surf]

pretty straight forward. its analogous to damns and wind farms.
The ocean currents create a force that is captured and distributed into energy.

But, i agree the cost of engineering is the hold back here, but I can't imagine a better source of energy.

I don't mean like that. To harness hydroenergy you build a dam and control the flow of water. This is small scale, but the formation of man made lakes because of the dam shows that we are impacting the environment and ecosystems with the dam.

You can't really dam an ocean current.

I had to go back and proof-read everything because I spelled dam as damn, every time.

[Swellinfo]

I don't mean like that. To harness hydroenergy you build a dam and control the flow of water. This is small scale, but the formation of man made lakes because of the dam shows that we are impacting the environment and ecosystems with the dam.

You can't really dam an ocean current.


why would you need to control the ocean. the ocean currents are never static...
think of a wind mill underwater.

[windswellsucks]

the problem with harnessing energy from most ocean currents is due to the tidal shifts. A traditional turbine generator expects a somewhat constant flow, and that flow needs to be in 1 direction (IE: Hoover Dam). Ocean currents move fast, then slow down, then change direction, and repeat... not ideal for a turbine generator

[Darealm]

A big hurdle to tidal power is the amount of money that must be spent maintaining the machines. Salt water is corrosive and breaks down the parts very quickly. The expensive parts need to be replaced relatively often.

Also, there are environmental concerns with tidal energy because the blades/turbines could kill fish/whales/etc. If the blades/turbines kill an animal, it creates blood and chum, essentially, bringing more animals towards the blades. Those animals die and create more blood/chum, and pretty soon you have a sea creature massacre happening at those underwater turbines.

[Swellinfo]

Also, there are environmental concerns with tidal energy because the blades/turbines could kill fish/whales/etc. If the blades/turbines kill an animal, it creates blood and chum, essentially, bringing more animals towards the blades. Those animals die and create more blood/chum, and pretty soon you have a sea creature massacre happening at those underwater turbines.

didn't think of a sea creature massacre - good point.

[Swellinfo]

the problem with harnessing energy from most ocean currents is due to the tidal shifts. A traditional turbine generator expects a somewhat constant flow, and that flow needs to be in 1 direction (IE: Hoover Dam). Ocean currents move fast, then slow down, then change direction, and repeat... not ideal for a turbine generator

this shouldn't be an issue. winds have the same variability... just allow the turbine to harness from all directions.

[ritecoastsurfer3]

uh is any one concerned we may have a big swell filter on the outside of our lineups?????

[Swellinfo]

uh is any one concerned we may have a big swell filter on the outside of our lineups?????

read the entire thread...

[Prey4Surf]

read the entire thread...

I think he might be referring to our upside down water mills we are currently discussing. I was actually thinking the same thing, whats a farm, or say a bank of these going to do to a current? Slow it, divert it, alter it just enough that it might cause some unknown weather issue. Granted if we did this in the Atlantic, America wouldn't notice any issues, but Europe would.

Also the under water massacre made me laugh for a good 5 minutes, it didn't even occur to me that other things might want to use the water, lol.

[Swellinfo]

I think he might be referring to our upside down water mills we are currently discussing. I was actually thinking the same thing, whats a farm, or say a bank of these going to do to a current? Slow it, divert it, alter it just enough that it might cause some unknown weather issue. Granted if we did this in the Atlantic, America wouldn't notice any issues, but Europe would.

Also the under water massacre made me laugh for a good 5 minutes, it didn't even occur to me that other things might want to use the water, lol.

the underwater massacre is a really good point.

as far as ocean currents go - this is way to small scale for it to disturb large scale ocean currents.

that would be like saying putting up a wind farm will change our weather patterns. Butterfly effect... sure.. everything has an influence, but we are talking minor. Every time we turn fields into parking lots, we influence climate, but that wont stop development.

i thought rightcoastsurfer3 was talking about blocking swells from reaching the beaches.

[ritecoastsurfer3]

read the entire thread...

seems like the sea massacre is getting a lot more attention. . .i mean sticking huge structures in the way of swell should be a concern for surfers right?

[Swellinfo]

seems like the sea massacre is getting a lot more attention. . .i mean sticking huge structures in the way of swell should be a concern for surfers right?

ya, we were dicussing this earlier on in the thread.

now that i think about it a little more, i'm thinking the mills will have to be moored to the bottom, so they dont float away. before, when we were discussing this, I was proposing maybe they are more or less floating on the surface, which wouldnt be a problem for swell blockage.

So, if they are moored, then I guess there will be some reflection of swells propagating towards the beach. However, we are only talking about a small window of beach that would be effected - so hopefully that window is not covering a good break... I dont think it will be too substantial of an influence.

[Prey4Surf]

I think a good way would be to work them into the walls of an inlet. Inlets have a strong flow that is easily predictable in both direction and speed. I'm thinking in the walls of inlets, basically a concrete intake with the fans on the inside, away from boats and other water traffic. Think like brake ducts on cars, or better yet gills on a fish. They would need to have their shaft switched in direction 2x a day, but that would be easily accommodated with the 20 or so minute ebb tide.

[Db2k5]

PETA would have a field day with that. I would be stabbing them with beach umbrellas and smacking them with my fins on the beach.

[oclaxer52]

the underwater massacre is a really good point.

as far as ocean currents go - this is way to small scale for it to disturb large scale ocean currents.

that would be like saying putting up a wind farm will change our weather patterns. Butterfly effect... sure.. everything has an influence, but we are talking minor. Every time we turn fields into parking lots, we influence climate, but that wont stop development.

i thought rightcoastsurfer3 was talking about blocking swells from reaching the beaches.
This under water massacreneverappen. ONe the tides don't move fast enough to generate enough energy to make a turbine move fast enough to hurt a fish. Secondly have any of u tried to spin a turbine/propeller under water. it is pretty difficult to do and there is no way dat tidal fluctuations even have enough force to spin these turbines/propellers. So pretty much trying to gather energy from tidal movements is out of the question because the cost to set up these underwater energy generators would cost too much for such a small amount of energy pay off. Underwater generators using the oceans tides is never goin to happen.

[Admin]

This under water massacreneverappen. ONe the tides don't move fast enough to generate enough energy to make a turbine move fast enough to hurt a fish. Secondly have any of u tried to spin a turbine/propeller under water. it is pretty difficult to do and there is no way dat tidal fluctuations even have enough force to spin these turbines/propellers. So pretty much trying to gather energy from tidal movements is out of the question because the cost to set up these underwater energy generators would cost too much for such a small amount of energy pay off. Underwater generators using the oceans tides is never goin to happen.


i dont agree at all. the cost is surely an issue, but the ocean currents are likely storing the greatest amount of energy available.

think about a turbine, half underwater, half above water... Should be quite easy to move - and a similar process to storing energy from a damn. build some sort of eco friendly mesh barrier to prevent the underwater massacre (but allow the water movement).
<--- just brainstorming - there certainly needs to be some creativity in the engineering, but there is always a way --->

dont think tides, think ocean movement - currents.

[aka pumpmaster]

FYI: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tidal_power

[Prey4Surf]

Who says the turbine has to massive like a wind mill? It could be a lot of small ones.

[Swellinfo]

FYI: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tidal_power

nice dig up.

[goin_retro]

First Tidal Power generator open:

Tech Review (http://www.technologyreview.com/Energy/21279/)

[ritecoastsurfer3]

http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/186/story/203214.html

windmills off ac

[DavidOlya]

Not sure where my information came from, but I was told once that the Indian River Inlet has such a strong water flow from tide changes that turbines placed in the Inlet could power a small town such as lewes. This strong water flow is also the reason the bridge has eroded so much and needs to be replaced (but by the looks of it, may not happen until it's too late.)

[Bad Bug Surfing]

I've heard about tidal generators in Maine that the tides were running so strong that not only was it strong enough to produce a crap load of energy, it ripped the 20 ton generator off the inlet bottom :). And the other design is the wave flapper, at unsurfable coasts there are hinged flaps the use magnetic friction generators to use the waves motion to create energy. No fish kill there, But im not sure about the efficiency of that method

[bergandy]

mad good idea, can make lots of money if you own some of those