I agree that vast majority of the deficit was created under Republican leadership. Perhaps I would be more supportive of the Democratic plan if the details weren't so hard to come by & and they didn't pass the useless stimulus in the sneaky manner that they did. Pardon the anology, but it's like placing a few hundred more pounds on the camel's back because the previous loader unwisely loaded it up with a thousand pounds. When it's back breaks, who's to blame? I find it equally condemning to President Obama that any criticism of his policies are justified by a history lesson of the eight years of President Bush. It's my personal opinion that 3 years into a term, an improvement would be seen or even just a detailed plan laid out.
Again, I don't claim to know the finer details of economics, but it would seem that taxing the top 2% would have a pretty significant increase to them. If their tax bracket is 35% now, how much would it take to make the "difference" required to stabilize the economy? 45%? 50%? Does anybody think that the top 2% percent would actually hand over half of their income without finding ways to maintain their quality of life without negatively impacting the lower 98%? When you start taking half of a person's income, the principle of working for half the pay comes into play...and I can't see that not having even more negative repercussions. Closing tax loopholes, on the other hand, make perfect sense. Luxury taxes on properties and houses over certain sizes, perhaps? Higher tariffs on imported goods? I don't know. I do know, however, that when you're in a hole that's getting too deep to get out of, you stop digging. To say that we have no federally-funded programs that could be cut is ignorant.
In the end, it doesn't really matter because at this point, both sides know exactly where the budget is going to end. This latest fiasco is nothing more than early campaigning...on both parties' parts. They're both posturing for political gain. Unfortunately, I can't vote against Boehner, but I would if I could. He and President Obama are both, in my opinion, unworthy of their positions.
the blame game solves nothing. Lead like a leader. Tackle the issues at hand. The degree to which Obama is a lefty progressive is really showing to the American people. Obama is doing what the media refused to do during the election, show his true colors.
The debt ceiling has been passed every time since Reagan.....who gives a fu(k. Now is the time to change the ol' business as usual. Obama voted against the debt ceiling being raised under Bush to try to de-fund the war. You reap what you sow!! Regardless, all politics aside. If you spend more than you make...you have to start spending less. This is so freaking basic. Or......you make more money or the buzz phrase "increase revenue"...which just means raise taxes. Cut, Cap and Balance....so simple. I feel the American people are really beginning to see the govt through the eyes of the Tea Party. The eyes of sanity......
btw..yankee, you are losing your argumentative platform by name calling and such. I'm just saying. Don't be a typical lib.
I think you are dead one with these points. (Sorry for cutting out the other stuff). No matter what your ideology, or how you arrive from A to B, these 2 points stick in my mind.
Originally Posted by Ray F.
1.) Whatever blame is to be laid on the Bush administration, the time of blaming has long past. This has become a tired narrative 3 years into a presidency and in my mind speaks directly to the lack of substance of Obama's record, because if there was substance wouldn't one point to their own accomplishments and initiatives (this is the heart of politicking after all). When Obama lays blame at the Bush administration for our fiscal situation he appears weak, as a real leader would tout their own plans for action instead of pointing fingers and not sidestep any blame for the current fiscal situation.
2.) Whether there are revenues raised through tax increases or spending cuts achieved, or a combination of the two, that would be a palpable solution, but raising the debt limit is a non starter. After all what is the purpose of a limit if it is only to be raised? Raising the limit would truly prove to the world that our government is out of control in terms of spending and cannot reign itself in. And this translates to a further loss of credibility. Raising the limit is akin to "kicking the can down the road", and that is not leadership, that is screwing future generations.
BTW, is is just me or have any of y'all noticed alot of political ads like "Chris Christie for President", or "Ron Paul for President", or "Help Stop Obamacare" seem to appear on this thread more than others?? Just wondering aloud....
I do. I think the casual way congess has increased the debt limit dozens of times, with little thought of the consequences, is exactly what has gotten us into the situation we're in. Those two bozos last night, first Obama then Boehner, using a crisis to make political speeches, were pathetic.
Originally Posted by LOSTsoul
I'm not trying to be a jerk but you need to brush up on some reading. You obviously know nothing about monetary policy. Also, the USD has not loss 50%, it's loss 99% of it's value since we got off of the Gold Standard. The only thing holding the USD by a thread is some minor confidence in it. Since it's no longer backed by gold, it's only paper and only confidence in it creates its value. Inflation is essentially a decrease in the value of the dollar and actually a tax on us. Since the dollar is completely devalued and inflation/stagnation, we have less purchasing power and can buy less with the dollar. That's why inflation is a tax because the dollars in our pocket aren't worth much. If the dollar was backed by some commodity that is a tangible item, the same item 100 years ago would go for the same price today. Inflation wouldn't exist.
Originally Posted by rodndtube
Regarding manufacturing. That's long gone and it will never come back to the United States until we stop outsourcing jobs. I don't know where you get your information. You say the dollar decline helps create manufacturing jobs in the USA. Give me some of what your smoking or what causes these grand delusions. I never heard anything this absurd.
It's only a matter of time until a really enormous recession hits. We keep prolonging it by borrowing more money from the FED and the dirty bankers. That just increases this country's debt and prolongs the inevitable. Stop taking tax payer dollars for social programs and these bull**** stimulus bills which don't do anything. They just increase our debt and haven't helped the economy at all. It's time to change the monetary policy in this country. We need to have the dollar backed by something so it's not just paper. This will prevent the devalue of the dollar and help get our economy get back on track. We need to completely abolish the FED who are in bed with the Democrats and Republicans and let Congress create our currency that is backed by a commodity. Then, we no longer have to borrow from the FED (private banks) and won't have any debt. This will take some time. We have to let the recession happen now which will be less painful than prolonging it. Then, the economy will come back and this country can finally become independent from private bankers. Until then, we will keep having the FED print our own money. Then, loaning the paper to us with interest attached. It's a pretty good gig the FED has going. Take paper/ink and print some dollars. Say it costs .02 to create one dollar with the paper and ink. Then, they turn around and charge us one dollar plus interest. Before interest is tacked on, they just made 98 cents for each dollar. Now, when they create trillions, these low life cock suckers are making the real money and are essentially the real leaders of this country.
History is an amazing lesson. The American Revolution was fought primarily because we were being taxed by England and didn't have control over our monetary policy. It's very sad that these people fought for us to issue our own money and warned never to let banks control money supply. It's funny how we stepped back now to being slaves to the bankers just like we were to England.
So go vote in 2012 if it makes you feel good. They make you think you have a choice but you don't. This country was bought and sold to private bankers ages ago. You have no choice until they are abolished.
Here are some good quotes regarding the issuance of money from some of our great leaders.
"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. Already they have raised up a monied aristocracy that has set the government at defiance. The issuing power (of money) should be taken away from the banks and restored to the people to whom it properly belongs.\" -- Thomas Jefferson, U.S. President.
"If Congress has the right [it doesn't] to issue paper money [currency], it was given to them to be used by...[the government] and not to be delegated to individuals or corporations.\" -- President Andrew Jackson, Vetoed Bank Bill of 1836
"History records that the money changers have used every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and it's issuance.\" -- James Madison
Great post. All the arguing and bickering over numbers is ridiculous. It's real simple...Our government has a spending problem and it needs to stop. We cannot give Obama a "blank check" as Boehner said last night. He will just continue to spend which is not the solution.
Originally Posted by LOSTsoul
Obama's true colors are finally showing and hopefully people are smart enough to see through him.
[QUOTE=LOSTsoul;101724]the blame game solves nothing. Lead like a leader. Tackle the issues at hand. The degree to which Obama is a lefty progressive is really showing to the American people. Obama is doing what the media refused to do during the election, show his true colors.
I am not engaging in a "blame game" I was just pointing out that the deficit hole we are in is caused by tax (revenue) cuts and massive spending, voluntarily passed by congress in the 2000's Putting all the spending on the credit card and now the bill is due and the same people who ran up the credit card are now crying about how broke we are.
Obama is not a lefty progressive, he is a centrist. Universal healthcare, gay marriage, letting the Bush era tax cuts expire, getting out of Iraq and Afghanistan, closing Gitmo, investigating the banksters are just a few examples of lefty progressive policies. Obama is not a lefty progressive.
As for the stimulus, it kept state budgets afloat. Even conservative governors took stimulus money just to keep their state budgets afloat due to the housing banking bubble. Obama wanted a bigger stimulus but could not get it passed out of the house & senate (remember it takes 60 votes to pass?) Only in America is 60% the majority required to pass bills. He took what he could get on stimulus.
We are not returning to the gold standard anytime soon, get used to it.
And yes, we have been sold out to the banksters and multinational corporations long ago.
It is hard to lead when the opposition party is so bent on making you a one term president that they are willing to risk the credit of the entire nation and the economy. And compromise is a dirty word in many republicans view these days.
No need for name calling when facts abound that the Republicans never have been about deficit reductions or balanced budgets.
Originally Posted by BeachCruiser01
????????????????????????????????????????? What? Hello??? Beuller??? WOW!!!
We have a spending problem because Boehner, et al, cut taxes and spent on 2 wars and expanded gov't. Boehner has no credibility on the "blank check" statement because he gave Bush a blank check for 6 years when Rs controlled the house last time. The same house leadership that gave Bush everything he ever wanted and more the last time they were in charge are now crying about how Obama spent us here. No, Obama did not. Obama spending is 20% of the problem.
Originally Posted by Johnny Utah
Its not bickering over numbers, its debating the facts of where we are and how we got here.
Once again We have a revenue problem just as much as a spending problem because Rs voluntarily CUT taxes while INCREASING spending.
Study up on lefty progressive positions and get back to me. Like the ones I listed as examples.
Originally Posted by LOSTsoul