2 New Customs finished for Spencer and Eric

yes, it is almost cliche to call thing simmons now, but it is what people understand them as , just like when your make a small wave shortboard, you have to call it a dwart or dumpster diver.... even though big name companies are not the originator of these designs, it is what the mass understand them as.... i have been lucky enough to learn from some really amazing shapers and people... would i love to go back in time and see and talk to the greatest shapers in the world.... yes what shaper wouldn't. The wealth of knownledge out their that most people take for granted or just dont care about is immense. I wish i could have all the innovators of this industry in one room and just talk to them for hours.... that would be the dream ehhh? I dont believe hydrodynamica has been released yet.

Sorry to hijack the thread by the way...your boards all look well made and I love the bottle tint. Its a classic.

it's not hijacked, its a good conversation. most people dont know who bob simmons is. Its always great to talk about past times and design theories that why i post these!

Yeah Man, kinda in the middle of a bit of everything at the moment. I look foward to seeing your latest pics. Inspiring.

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Originally Posted by mitchell

Sorry to hijack the thread by the way...your boards all look well made and I love the bottle tint. Its a classic.

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This is exactly what I love about these threads. Backyard soul, passion, query, and inspiration. The exchanges are amazing and priceless. Mitchell Im familiar with you from swaylocks and your input contributes greatly.

Your boards are looking nice A2Tall. I had the same question about the pulled in tail when I saw them. What is the width at the tail block?

@Mitchell
My understanding of Simmons boards are that they were planing hulls based on the book , Naval Architecture and Planing Hulls by Lindsay Lord from the 1940's. Bob Simmons boards were much longer than what is being made now (hence the mini in the name) more in the 8 - 10 foot range made for speed and trim for the LJ reefs and TJ Sloughs waves.

The resurgence was due to some guys (I will stay out of who was first, original etc) in the SD and la jolla area wanting to revisit his ideas in smaller platforms - more modern if you will. They built a few and the design was revisited, and updated smaller, increased turning ability to turn, make a movie, sell some boards hahah etc

There are a couple of key design attributes to them IMHO (tail block min of 10" across, single concave between the fins, keel type fins set way back and out on the rail) to achieve the speed/reduced drag Simmons was concerning himself with - he wasn't looking to do a bunch of turns.

An important point for planing hull is what is called aspect ratio (the following is taken from Swaylocks- submitted by Billywillgo)
Aspect ratio
1) "A" is simply the first step, and that is finding the middle point between the wide point and the nose.
2) After you find the middle point you take the distance from there to the tail to get a value for "B".
3) You then find the middle ground between the wide point "A" and the wide point of your tail to get the value for "C".
4) You then divide "C" into "B" to get the aspect ratio.
(you want between .3 and .5 , .4 is considered optimum for a planing hull)

Damn I have a diagram that does a good job illustrating it but I am having trouble loading it

Anyway now the initial ideas are being mixed with modern updates (quads, twinzers, wings to bring in the tails, vee with doubles through the tail) to create a little bit different rides, expand the envelope etc. John Cherry does some beautiful bigger ones (Simm 21) with some awesome wooden fins.

BTW Mitchell saw some of your ES pics - looks like you guys scored down there!

Good thread
Jim




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Originally Posted by a2tall

i have surfed tons of simmons, i love them all but to me the pulled in tail is just more responsive, it works a bit better in all around conditions, it is more of a "modern simmons" if you can call it that. incorporating the old and new, as everything designs always change to what the situation entails. Just preference to each rider. The tail actually is still pretty wide, just not as parallel as more "Traditional" simmons.

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ok. i was just curious. i have a 5'8" bing puck that's very fun...it's less a true mini-simmons & more a step or 2 down (or up or sideways) the evolutionary ladder from a simmons...quad set up, hull/belly roll forward to a flat, almost concave, area from the mid-point back through the fins. VERY side arc tail. i don't think it's particularly hard to control until the surf gets a bit steeper/more powerful. then it's almost TOO fast, if that makes any sense. i have found that w/ the quad set up, all 4 fins being of almost equal size makes it all much more manageable. the puck is probably my current favorite board in my quiver. it's a great log alternative in small surf & blast in stomach-chest high waves, too.

also, to be a proper mini-simmons, it should be a shrunken down version of the board on the right in this picture: http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...D5mrykM7jTbhRg. i believe the hydrodynamica guys' boards started out that way, then the idea just evolved from there, merging w/ fish templates, shortboard templates, etc...until you wind up w/ something almost entirely, but not completely, unlike anything bob simmons ever imagined. i seem to recall reading an interview (or maybe it was in a film) w/ greg noll where he said that simmons' boards were pains in the ass to shape b/c there was just so much going on: step decks, rolled bottoms that transition into deep single concaves, not to mention the twin keels set way back on the tail. the things were decades ahead of their time!

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Originally Posted by njsurfer42

also, to be a proper mini-simmons, it should be a shrunken down version of the board on the right in this picture: http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...D5mrykM7jTbhRg. i believe the hydrodynamica guys' boards started out that way, then the idea just evolved from there, merging w/ fish templates, shortboard templates, etc...until you wind up w/ something almost entirely, but not completely, unlike anything bob simmons ever imagined. i seem to recall reading an interview (or maybe it was in a film) w/ greg noll where he said that simmons' boards were pains in the ass to shape b/c there was just so much going on: step decks, rolled bottoms that transition into deep single concaves, not to mention the twin keels set way back on the tail. the things were decades ahead of their time!

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Its one thing to make and craft things, but it is another to be the innovator of something, people like that are the people we remember....when im old and crusty someday i will be telling my grandkids ohhh i remember xyz made the first 123 and it completely changed the surfing world....then they will probably say...pops... your telling me my hovercraft wave board was designed from that old thing.... ya right....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by a2tall

Its one thing to make and craft things, but it is another to be the innovator of something, people like that are the people we remember....when im old and crusty someday i will be telling my grandkids ohhh i remember xyz made the first 123 and it completely changed the surfing world....then they will probably say...pops... your telling me my hovercraft wave board was designed from that old thing.... ya right....

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Andrew -Making boards guys are stoked to ride is what it is all about, you seem to have that going no matter what model/type/genre gets hung on them. Keep posting the pictures.
Jim