So, im running with a standard set of FCS foils for my quad fish. Although these fins perform well on the mushier, less steep sections like the cliffs, when it get to that low tide, at the beach break, Im still getting a little slide out on steeper turns.
If I use the standard FCS foil fins on the back, inside fins, and got 2 of the actual FISH style fins (The nice, fat wide ones). Do you think that setup would lose a little speed, but get more stable grip when you really bury the rail?
Im just thinking here. There are a ton of fins on craigslist, and I want to play around with it and get a tighter, locked in turning setup. These fins release well off the top and stuff, but they dont dig much on steep turns....
Any advice? Im a traditional thruster guy as ive previously stated... So im new to this quad stuff.
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Thread: Fish Fins
Feb 2, 2011, 09:59 PM #1
Feb 3, 2011, 02:51 AM #2
whats the height of them?
Feb 3, 2011, 03:20 AM #3
Here is the tech breakdown on them:
M5 Sides + M2 Sides
The FCS M4 quad design concept was pioneered by surfer, shaper, and inventor Bruce McKee. The M-Series has a flexible tip for forgiveness and control at high speed. The rear fin is designed to compliment the M-5 template in the front and works best in conjunction with McKee`s fin placement guide. The M2 Rear fin is designed for the lighter surfer and featuring inside foil technology and a consistently smooth flex pattern. This smaller and round fin is extremely fast and lively and sits between the G-1000 and G-3000 in area. Can be used across a variety of different conditions. The Inside Foil technology offers superior drive and hold. Glass flex offers a flex pattern modeled off a hand-foiled fiberglass fin and the ability to hold highly technical computer generated foils accurately.
The M4 quad set can be used on a variety of board templates and offers drive and control while maintaining pivot and response. It is reliable in powerful conditions and ideal for surfers who love to load up through turns. Rear fin also available as a center or side fin.
That is what I have on there now. Its a 5'7x19 3/4 performance fish.
I was thinking of leaving the m2 rear fins (or even putting the m5 sizes there) and then running these on the front/sides with larger, wider fins....
Would this give me more torque and grip through turns? I am assuming the extra fin volume would help hold the rail through the turn more than these. Im thinking of something like this in the front:
My m4's even say "Ideal for guys who like to load up through turns"... But I think it cant hold that much of a load. They release pretty easy./
Feb 3, 2011, 04:04 AM #4Senior Member
- Join Date
- Apr 2008
i like these scimitar fins,they lock in and hold when i start to lose it.can't believe they held today,super critical below sea level inside out drops
Feb 3, 2011, 04:12 AM #5
Future Fins Scimitar
The Future Fins Scimitar is a constant variable plane fin, based on a variable algorithm. Starting with Future Fins plain Vector foil, the fin twists from the base and then cants in. Future Fins does it on three different angles of attack giving the Future Fins Scimitar maximum water attachment. The Future Fins Scimitar is a highly refined design and smooth riding fin that holds through more of the turn. The Scimitar is a very lively fin, best for rail-to-rail surfing.
Future Fins Scimitar Fin Size:
Height: 4.52 in. 11.5 cm
Base: 4.37 in. 11.1 cm
Area: 15.39 in.² 99.29 cm²
Scimitar Trailer - Hatchet 450 Fin Size:
Height: 4.50 in. 11.4 cm
Base: 3.35 in. 8.5 cm
Area: 13.2 in.² 85.16 cm²
So, my next question is, what kind of board do you ride with these fins? A quad fish kinda thing? I would be looking for the FCS equivilant, as my plugs are not future.
Feb 3, 2011, 04:36 AM #6Senior Member
- Join Date
- Aug 2010
When you refer to "fish fins", I assume you're talking about the Gephardt style, low ratio "retro fish" keel fins.
Interesting concept you have. I would normally say "yes" to the increased drive and speed the keel fins make. However, two factors could negate your theory.
1) The increased rocker, and particularly, the increased curve in the tail area of a quad fish (as opposed to a retro keel fish) could undo the usual benefits of the Geppy fins....MAYBE.
2) Does FCS even have a keel fin setup? I run LokBox on my quad, and there are Geppy style fins available for the LokBox. Never used 'em, tho.
I would only run Geppy's solo, with no leading or trailing fins.
I've also heard excellent things about the Scimitar fins in quad setups. Might be worth a try.
Feb 3, 2011, 04:57 AM #7
So, I know this angle doesn't show much, but here is my actual board, with the fin plugs, from above....
So yes, I was refering to the "keel" style fins. And yes, FCS makes quite a few styles of them. THe photo I posted above (the blue ones) are FCS keels.
As for the rocker, it is a pretty flat entry rocker and not too much rocker in the back, so it is a standard san diego fish style template with some tweeks for performance....
So, my general idea here is to have a 2 fin Keel setup, with 2 m2 trailer fins on the quad...
Im affraid of losing a ton of grip and drive if I go from 4 fins to a standard 2 keel fin setup. So, I am thinking I will get added grip through turns with the larger/wider front keel fins and normal foil trailors...
Last edited by zach619; Feb 3, 2011 at 05:00 AM.
Feb 3, 2011, 05:01 AM #8
So, technically, my m4s are "taller" than a keel style, but there is a ton more surface area on the slightly shorter, much wider/longer keel styles. So, im wonder if the shorter, wider, more surface are kind of fin would take me in the right direction, or backwards as far as where I need this setup to go?
Feb 3, 2011, 11:40 AM #9
zach, it's a neat concept you've got, but my initial reaction was that you'll end up w/ a very stiff, tracky board. you're used to a thruster set up, so i think that if you want more hold, you should seek out a fin w/ more rake. i really like the merrick template.
also, what material does that mckee set use? it looks like the crappy plastic (fcs calls it "glass flex", which is bs). that could be part of your problem as well. if you're a bigger guy or you exert a lot of force on the fins thru turns, you'll be over-loading those plastic fins, causing them to over-flex & wash out. a stiffer material could eliminate that issue.
fcs al merrick fin:
Performance Core material and construction is designed to deliver the feeling of a traditional fibreglass fin with the added performance of reduced weight. The RTM (Resin Transfer Moulding) process produces a lightweight fin with remarkable flex, a smooth feel and an impressive aesthetic.
Base: 4.61" / 117mm
Depth: 4.70" / 119mm
Area: 15.63"² / 10083mm²
maybe if you drop that in the front of your set up & keep the m-2 rears, you'll get the hold thru turns that you're looking for.
i also think that this quad set might work for you:
simon anderson s-25 fin (medium)
Last edited by njsurfer42; Feb 3, 2011 at 11:42 AM.
Feb 3, 2011, 11:54 AM #10
A couple thoughts...
It appears as though that board is not set up with the McKee placement specs from the photo, so don't let that influence your decision.
If you put keels in and another set of smaller fins, that board will be over-finned, IMO. By the look of it, I'd say putting keels alone in either spot would not be ideal... they'd be either too far forward, or to far back. I guess what I'm saying is that board is not set up for keels.
I'd also suggest that you don't need bigger fins.... you need stiffer fins. The other option would be fins with more tip and/or more height, but not necessarily more area.
I'm a big fan of the epoxy performance core fins, like some of the other guys have suggested. I have those green Simons, too, and like them, but I've never put them in a quad. But I think the flex, foil, and template (particularly the sweep) make them an excellent choice, and might solve your problem.