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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by spongedude View Post
    kool-aid indeed...
    deficit is revenue in relation to expenditure. the two wars are bush's. the tax cuts are bush's. (look it up). the sh!tty economy through deregulation of housing finance and the stock market (failed businesses fire people...and the unemployed don't pay taxes) as well as shipping jobs out is pre obama (bush, clinton et al) as well. your selective memory doesn't deal with the issues, but i'm sure it makes you feel better. we all are screwed right now and the reality is that this is not an invention of a single president or congress, but a pattern established since the 80's. the chickens have come home to roost and while they are crapping on obama's head, it all trickles down to us.
    I am conservative, and I agree with what you are saying. People just label everything "Bush's war etc" though ruffles the feathers of republicans. I think people need to throw in the "administration".... on the end there... I hear so many dems or liberals speaking on the bush administration as if George Bush sat alone in the oval office, sipping on scotch and smoking a cigar, pondering the decision to invade Iraq, or Afghanistan. I mean, seriously guys. Bush had a team of THOUSANDS of advisors on this stuff. The Military DID believe there were WMDs (and there probably were, we gave them a weeks notice that we were coming).... He was told that TACTICALLY, by the most intelligent military advisers on the planet, as well as scientists, engineers and think tanks on his team that in order to create a strong hold in that region, that BOTH wars were necessary. So I agree with how they explained this to the American People? No.,... But the American People SHOULD NOT KNOW sensative information about any of this stuff. THroughout this century, our people feel a sense of entitlement to informaiton. As if it is in our best interest to know TOP SECRET military data... I mean, with the internet and information age, the government knows TONS of sh** that we will never see. WE NEVER SHOULD SEE IT... Its called national security....

    So while people were out picketing and complaining, the Bush administration didnt care. They never had any intention of sharing top secret sh** with the people. Terrorists have the internet too you know....

    So, I think people as a whole have no clue about this stuff. Its really easy to criticize people who arent listening and dont care....

    I think the US government lied about some sh**, then and they are lying about sh** now under Obama. It is what it is. Obama wont tell us the truth. He will tell us what we all need to hear, just like every other president in the history of our nation has. Its their job...

    Did we go to the middle east to get OIL? Yes we did. I wish they wouldnt lie...

    So, that is the only reason I would potentially vote for Trump. I have a feeling he would stop the BS, snatch up the oil ALL AROUND there. Get the american people some money and we will go from there... We as a nation require tons of fossil fuel and oil. We have to deal with it. They Have Oil. We Want Oil. We Take Oil....

    Its like the scene in the middle of the "W" movie about Bush. Its a comdey, but the scene where they explain EXACTLY why they invaded iraq is 100% correct. They make a joke of it, but that entire scence it true... And as an american, I have no problem with that...

    Its just a shame we havent finished what we went there to do.

    Ohhh, and back to my point... The reason people Blame everything on Obama is because altough we agree Bush left a mess, on Bush's watch, ALL 8 YEARS OF it, we were BALLING as people. I had money. You all had money. Housing was skyrocketing. We were all rolling in the dough... happy as ****... Then, the timing was bad and when Obama took over, sh** hit the fan and everyone lost jobs, money, equity... And Bush was gone... So people associate the downfalll of the US with Obama, cause it feel apart while he was the one who had to speak on it;....

    But to say that Bush somehow set this up to happen to the democrats when he left is B.S. Geroge Bush was 100% convinced that he would be followed by another republican... He also thought he may be handing things over to Hilary Clinton, but not Obama....

    Bush didn't intentionally screw anyone... I just wish someone would finish what he started and be done with it. We cant stop it. We cant pull out. So just handle your business, get us our oil so we can all drive to work again.

    Gas in my neighborhood is $4.23 right now. For the 87 octane... GET ME SOME FU**ING OIL OBAMA!!!! You guys have been selling us cars for decades... Selling us the american dream... Now we cant afford it. Stop being a pus*y and start pumping that oil baby!

  2. #62
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    And everyone should remember, this is a capitalist nation. Period. Business' employ people. In order to do so, the business' need a surplus of money. The people who own shares of these business' or run them are in the business of profiting, so that money can trickle down the chain... You keep the boss happy, he keeps his workers happy. Capitalism.

    So, why is every mad at Bush's tax cuts and the conservative idea that If you take money from the top, they cut much more out of the middle than they need to. You have to allow the top end of business to profit on an extreme level. You can't reguate them... The government should not tax a billion dollar company on the same percentage as everyone else. That is not fair to them. That will promote outsourcing and job losses throughout.

    Isn't this the way America Works? We are not a bleeding heart. No one if forced to be here. People are lucky that we have any kind of welfare system of anything like that... Its crazy... Get the fu** out if you can't be a valuable member of society.

    I am by no means wealthy, but I have to deal with some pretty rich fu**s, and no matter how much money they have, they try and save more. And the second the government or anyone else takes ANYTHING from them. Even a dollar, they stop spending. The top end stops spending and everything falls apart...

    I just think that everyone needs to realize that alot of that wheel greasing and top end business government deals actually did us all alot of good. Plenty of jobs. Spending was going nuts, and that is how the american economy flourishes. Only when its active like that... And I dont really see why everyone has to disagree so much on what we all need. I think we all just want a job. Period. The ability to support ourselves... But it doesnt work if you hack up top end business with ridiculous taxes... They stop spending. You wonder why every american company you ever call is running their call centers out of India. BILLIONS of dollars that should be here. But will not be.
    Last edited by zach619; Apr 9, 2011 at 06:25 PM.

  3. The hole we are in.

    This attached chart shows the effect the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and the Bush era tax cuts have on the economy along with other items impacting the economy.

    Two unfunded, ill planned/conceived wars with no end in sight and Bush era tax cuts drove us into the ditch and continue to keep us there and are by FAR the largest part of our deficits and debt.

    To cut taxes while ballooning spending then crying that the nation is broke because it spends too much is stupid in the extreme. But that is what certain Republicans did and are doing. Drive the country to the point of bankruptcy then cry "we're broke" then cut the budget on only items you do not agree with.

    As I have posted on here before, we are all socialists in one form or another. We like our police, fire, emergency systems, clean water, clean air, public beaches and parks, roads, bridges, schools, etc. If you disagree with a funding policy such as planned parenthood that is fine. (BTW its against Federal Law to use Federal money for abortions). But be careful what you wish for as you might be on the recieving end of that rhetoric. I am sure there are a few people in Oklahoma who feel that beach replenishment is a waste of money because they see no firsthand benefit from it.

    The Indian River Inlet bridge is not being paid for by only the citizens of Bethany Beach or Rehoboth, the towns who would stand to gain most by its construction. We are all paying for that bridge.

    Just remember, it was claimed that those Bush tax cuts would create millions of jobs. They did not. Then we HAD to extend them so they would create millions of jobs. They have yet to do that. We were also told that tax cuts would pay for themselves. They have not. It was **** Cheney who said "deficits don't matter". So, sorry, but I don't believe anything coming from the right regarding economic policy.

    More Jobs have been created under the Obama administration in 2 years than the entire 8 years of Bush. And Bush came into office with a budget SURPLUS the first one in decades.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  4. Re: Capitalism.

    ABRAHAM LINCOLN:
    All that serves labor serves the Nation. All that harms is treason. If a man tells you he loves America, yet hates labor he is a liar. If a man tells you he trusts America, yet fears labor, he is a fool. There is no America without labor, and to fleece the one is to rob the other.

    Labor is prior to and independent of capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. ANDREW JACKSON:

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by BeachCruiser01 View Post
    Attached is a pie chart showing that 97% of the services provided by Planned Parenthood go to womens health services OTHER than abortion. Only 3% of their services go to abortion services.

    It is also worth noting that NO Planned Parenthoods in the state of Delaware perform abortions.
    Quote Originally Posted by BeachCruiser01 View Post
    This attached chart shows the effect the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and the Bush era tax cuts have on the economy along with other items impacting the economy.

    charts! bright colors! numbers! science! im so impressed that i have to believe you

  6. Thank you, Do I get a gold star? (I could use one, I don't have a graphic of one).

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeachCruiser01 View Post

    As I have posted on here before, we are all socialists in one form or another. We like our police, fire, emergency systems, clean water, clean air, public beaches and parks, roads, bridges, schools, etc. If you disagree with a funding policy such as planned parenthood that is fine. (BTW its against Federal Law to use Federal money for abortions). But be careful what you wish for as you might be on the recieving end of that rhetoric. I am sure there are a few people in Oklahoma who feel that beach replenishment is a waste of money because they see no firsthand benefit from it.
    While I agree with that idea. I dont feel that way about myself. I personally believe that even without the current government structures and organizations that you mention, we as people would have created these exact same things. We would have created a private police force. And private fire departments. Regardless of how you look at it, we would have all of these things without the government. So in that regard, I dont feel that I think with any fundamental socialist ideology. I dont agree with social security...

    But, with that being said, I love america, so I do not argue these points. That is what our government was designed to do. Could we do without most of it? Yes.... Thats all Im saying... We could cut all kinds of government funded programs, and regionally and locally communities, cities and states can create jobs and oversea their own private sector programs....

    We can cut a ton out of the defense budget. We all agree on that. We can also do a little tax restructuring. Fine.... We can also cut a ton of BS government programs...

  8. Zach,

    I agree with your latter point, we could all do with a smaller gov't.

    As for groups of people gathering together and providing services, that is what a gov't is. We had privatized roads, bridges, and fire departments, etc. before the Gov't got into providing those. Some of these services work better privatized, others do not. I for one do not want a private police force or fire department. On the other hand I am not offended by the Delaware River & Bay Authority running the ferry and bridge privately or the Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel being a private business.

    Without Gov't investment and planning, the wonderful interstate highway system would not exist. The interstate highway system led to business' to spring up and commerce cheaper and easier to engage in. If you live on the Delmarva *****ula, you can drive from here to Florida without paying a single toll except for the privately run Bridge/Tunnel and I think that is a great thing. Imagine how many toll booths there would be for that 900 mile journey.

    I love this country as well, I just wish Gov't would stop slaving to the massive corporate intrests that guides most policies. No energy policy due to big energy, no jobs or immigration policy because of big corporate intrests either.

    I also agree with your earlier post about gas prices. After all these years, still no energy policy while 75% of oil land leases go untouched. Most of the oil price is based on speculation which should be limited or curtailed somehow. Its hard to get excited about "drill here drill now" when they aren't drilling here now on the land (or sea) they could be tapping.

    We are not a socialist/marxist/commie nation any more than we are a right-wing/libertarian/free-market nation. We are becoming a corporate democracy. Bought and paid for by multi national corporations who only seek to exploit this nation like any other in the pursuit of profit and we get stuck with the bill. We were told that Iraq would pay for its liberation with oil. We still have yet to see that, but big oil companies got the contracts to extract the oil.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Dano123 View Post
    It's a shame obamaconned people to vote for him with false promises. Has yet to pull out troops in Iraq and Afganistan, now he invades Libya, Gitmo still open, enconomy still in shambles and getting worse. Largest debt in American history, Unemployment at a record levels and stagnant, China and Russia laughing and taking advantage of America each day. the guy has let all everyone down and doesn't seem to care.
    Sorry Dano, but clearly you are a Republican and a hater. A man is dealt a hand, and the hand dealt the Obama administration and the American people by the greedy banking industry that threw the economy into a gigantic tailspin. It was the intentional bundling of hundreds of crappy loans together at a time (derivatives) that caused the economic collapse. You can see this for yourself on frontline http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/warning/view/

    The collapse was fully predicted by one woman who was laughed aside as somebody crying wolf. It just turned out that she was right.

    We're talking about something almost as serious as the great depression of the 30's. No president, R or D would have been able to recover the economy to a positive/thriving economy in two years, but now we're in Afganistan (where we should have been before Iraq), Iraq, and supporting Nato forces in Libya. I think that the rhetoric from haters on the right is outrageous. We need to focus on being Americans, and doing what's best for the middle class. EFF big business and their multi-million dollar lobbying efforts, EFF King Coal and their mountaintop removal at the plight of thousands of miles of streams in Appalachia, and EFF big Oil, their polluting ways and their multi billion dollar profits on the backs of every working American.

    How about a government of the people, by the people and for the people?

    Okay, I feel better after getting that off my chest.