View Poll Results: Who are you planning on voting for in the 2012 presidential election?
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Thread: 2012 Presidential Election
Jul 17, 2011, 04:14 PM #51Member
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- Sep 2007
Jul 17, 2011, 05:38 PM #52
Jul 18, 2011, 12:40 PM #54
Jul 18, 2011, 01:25 PM #55
It’s a curious definition of “negotiation” that one should do it my way, or else. Why bother to talk, at all? That is just the blunt use of power. The offer that one can’t refuse, the horsehead in the bed, a hint from the Godfather of things to come, unless………. Yet there they are in D.C., the House “negotiating” over the debt limit, so long as things go exactly their way and there are no tax hikes. A reasonable solution that includes some ratio of reductions in spending to increases in revenue, or even factoring in changes over specified years, is non-negotiable. Now let’s negotiate.
Hard to do more than shake your head.
And then, to add to the merriment, comes Michelle Bachman. It’s hard not to see her as a clown, but reporters I trust, such as Matt Tiabbi, say that her influence should be taken seriously and that she campaigns well, so watch out. I guess I should see her as a clown with one of those long pistols that pops a flag out that says “bang,” but simultaneously shoots bullets. She says, “Oh, debt ceiling, debt schmeilling.” They (the White House, Moody’s, the IMF, Wall Street) are lying to us. No biggy, just pay the interest. The world would be happy with that. I’m sure, Michelle.
I am far more naïve than cynical, and if I start to doubt motivations and look for sinister reasons, that’s a bad sign. Kurt Vonnegut said that the white man conquered North America due to his (our) sheer capacity to astonish. We said to the Indians, “we’re going to kill all of your buffalo,” to which they replied, “oh, you’re just joshin’,” then stood there slack jawed as we did just that. I would be slack jawed, too. This comes to mind when I start to wonder if the Republicans would really (really?) be willing to crash the world’s economy just to get Obama out of office and a Republican in the White House. Mitch McConnell, (R. Dark Ages) has said that this is his highest priority. Guess the country’s interests have to wait in line, eh, Mitch? Nothing to do but watch. Thank God, Buddha, Fate, Thor, whatever, that I am not in Congress. Bad enough to feel helpless, but both helpless and responsible? Gheesh.
What is lost in this is a non-political view of things. Bill Clinton noted that the R’s don’t want to raise taxes, since this would slow economic growth, something to avoid at a time of recovery, and they are right in this, he acknowledged. The D’s might be willing to trim, but don’t want to gut a social safety net, education, Medicare and unemployment because the long term and system consequences are dire (and it’s wrong), and they are right. He proposed factoring in both solutions over a period of years, no taxes now, some cuts, but not drastic ones, with additional revenues added as the economy improves, and further cuts gradually phased in. Made sense to me.
But people want to get re-elected. That sounds self-serving, but it does reflect the desire to do what voters want, and that’s the basis of democracy. You voted me into office to spin straw into gold, Tea Party, and, Dagnabit!, that’s what I am going to vote for. Elect a follower to Congress! I can see the campaign mottos now—“She can pander like no one else.” “He will please at any price.” “I won’t tell you anything that upsets you or asks for sacrifice.” That approach sure would have made the Nazis happy. Remember leadership?
These are complex questions, but not beyond the average voters comprehension (assuming, of course, that the 35% of adults in Detroit who are illiterate, according to one study, don’t vote). Try this: “Mom and Dad were in a car wreck and can’t work full time. We have less money coming in. We have to cut back—way back-- on what we spend, but even then won’t have enough to keep our family safe, so we have to borrow. Getting up to full speed is taking them a little longer than we thought, but they are trying and slowly improving, but we have to borrow more from Uncle China to pay the MasterCard bill. If we don’t, and borrowing is the only solution right now, then we are telling the credit card people that we are a bad risk and that won’t be pretty. We have faith that we can pay it off, particularly since we are cutting back and the folks are working a bit longer hours now. If we just cut expenses, then the folks can’t afford to buy medicines or go to the doctor, and they will take longer to get better, if ever. Then we’re really in the ditch.” Simple, yeah. Kinda works, tho’, don’t ya think?
My view of this is not at all made less bright because of the Yakima Bears in last place, 7 games out behind Boise, not to mention the Mariners. I guess the solution is to cut back on paying more for good players so they will win, and then sell more tickets. Better to trim costs and lose, don’t you think?
But on the bright side, there are wonderful moments.
Jul 18, 2011, 01:26 PM #56
Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something.
Jul 18, 2011, 01:46 PM #57
your premise is faulty in so many ways it baffles me. first off, your whole post is based on the notion that things are (slowy) improving. They are not. Inflation is rising, unemployment is rising and the housing market is a disaster. People are fed up which is shy the 2010 election was a huge mandate to stop and cut the out of control spending in DC. This is precisely what the House is doing...following it's mandate from the people.
Seriously, we just need to be ready to cut the spending. That's it. It won't get better overnight but it will be a start. (NO more special programs!) If you don't work or unwilling to work then you don't eat! No more welfare! IT's called "get a job". We ALL need to hunker down and accept that things are not going to be the way we are used to them. CUT the spending! Balance the budget.
If you had a credit card, which some of you do (I don't) and you were maxed out and unable to make your minimum monthly payment, would you call the credit card company and plead with them to raise your limit? NO! you wouldn't! You would stop buying crap and start paying down the prinicple (not just make minimum pmt or pay the interest). Don't raise the debt ceiling!
That's what we need to do. Stop spending money we don't have, bring manufacturing back to the US. Don't get me started on illegals. Then cut taxes (NOT raise them)! When the government cuts taxes they end up bringing in more in... you guessed it, TAXES than when they raise them! If anyone wants to know how, take an econ class then we'll talk.
I know this guy Bob. He's a carpenter and I swear this guy could run the country better than the past three presidents. These guys who have the money to run for office are milionaires many times over. Do you think they know or even care what it's like to be in the middle class? No! Get someone from the middle class in there (will never happen) and I bet this country would have a fighting chance.
Last edited by wallysurfr; Jul 18, 2011 at 03:55 PM.
Jul 18, 2011, 05:53 PM #59Senior Member
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- Jul 2009
first thing before social programs we need to cut is foreign aid. all of it. no offense japan, but you're actually probably doing a little better than us right. haiti i have sympathy for, but the people really aren't living any better than before the aid was sent to them. they're still in poverty. aid to pakistan is a joke. i think we should cut it off to israel too. we can't take care of our own people why should we take care of them? i've still never seen a proposal to cut down foreign aid by either side yet. we can't afford it. then when we got a natural disaster over here fema says there isn't enough money in budget!
seriously though cut out the foreign aid, cut out the 96 weeks of federally funded unemployment, cut out every subsidy to other countries like these pickle farms, and crap, and cut out all this epa bs, and the stupid experiments like the shrimp on the treadmill. last which this is a fat chance, but last cut down the politicians benefits. make them pay into their health care like the people do. even federal workers in the post office, and other federal sectors have to pay in! they should too. also if they raise the social security age, then they also need to raise the age of when a politician can collect a pension, or raise the number of years they need to serve. neither side wants to do this though cause they're all fing crooks.
lastly. stop obamacare. repeal it, but don't just repeal it, and end it all right there. create tort reform. enact something to reform the health care so people don't have to pay ridiculous prices for their health care, and do something to curb the costs. obamacare didn't curb the costs, and it's making them go up by at least 12% every year. this whold thing is a crime. ''we have to pass it so you can see what's in it''. i don't know if tort reform will solve this, but hopefully it can. then maybe the poor can be insured at reasonable prices, and those with pre existing conditions. if tort reform happens, and companies are still charging ridiculous rates, some companies will cut their rates, and then the others will have to also or risk losing all their business, because of the competition.
so stop all of this immediately. it won't end the whole deficit, but i'm sure you would be surprised. then maybe social security checks don't have to be cut or threatened. i hope all the seniors pull their vote for obama. he hasn't given them a raise since he's been in office! 09 was the last time, and obama hadn't been sworn in yet. obama has started so many other entitlements which need to also be cut as well. excessive unemployment benefits, cash for clunkers which was a joke. used car industry still hasn't recovered from that, stimulus, homeowner refinancing, all this stuff to excuse underwater mortgages. i know people have tough times, but just let it go. a lot of other people are doing that in foreclosure. the government has spent so much money bailing out homeowners as well as other companies.
one last thing ben bernanke is nothing, but a giant **** with ears. this joker was appointed by bush, and kept by obama. this guy is dangerous. same with geithner who has cheated on his taxes more than once. yes tim giethner is a fraud!
to end it though i still can't believe obama has gotten 16 votes. over a third of people. don't let me sway you though, and i do wanna make clear that i do not watch fox news, and never have. you don't need to watch fox news to understand what's going on!
Jul 18, 2011, 06:28 PM #60
Ron Paul and Obama neck and neck... I hope these are actually my choices in November 2012. I have been unimpressed by the obama administration until the last few months. If Obama keeps making statements about doing things that would benefit THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE (the middle/working class) rather than just the welfare mammas and the billionaires, then he MIGHT just get my vote after all. The next few weeks will really paint the picture...