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Thread: Flat Spell

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by beachbreak View Post
    more lies from the delusional one,not peer-reviewed,just junk science.explain why the buffer zones are so much bigger than everywhere else,or why recent evidence shows more success in areas nearer to humans.
    I'm concerned that this whole thing starts a precedent. I'm actually moving back to my hometown, and my favorite beach break is running into problems with access.

    http://jacksonville.com/community/na...-huguenot-park

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrewk529 View Post
    Look this is obviously a very passionate subject for-which many individuals have varying opinions. It is clear that nesting birds can be susceptible to stress very easily. Sometimes to the point of nest abandonment; even marine turtles will exhibit this behavior. Stress impacts all organisms though their endocrine system and genetic expression. All of the a fore mentioned scenarios are negative. My point is to acknowledge that fact that yes, the banks were colonized 500 years ago by English settlers. Americans didn't really begin to have a severe impact until the 1930's when the dune line was created. History tells us that there used to be millions of migrating birds which were shot for sport. Walk into any antique store on the Delmarva and you can probably still find the unique bird carvings used as decoys. Permanent residents on the banks should be happy that they are living on one of the last spots on the East Coast to be (unspoiled) where wildlife is abundant.;However, as we all know, development is encroaching. Not all business are viable indefinitely; it's called a free market system. Now there are a few bait stores which will see their margins drop because of the point being closed for a few months of the year. But I would like to see hard evidence that the closings are destroying their lively hoods. Species management is a contentious, and highly sensitive topic. My hope is that with more understanding between both groups, a common ground can be formed. No I do not play golf; the courses destroy the environment and pollute an already fragile watershed(s). This is not a North Vs South debate, or Blue Vs White collar. There are scientists from NC which will make similar statements in support of the NPS. I can forward peer reviewed studies supporting my opinion; if you are interested in reading them please PM me. The banks will experience many compounding issues which will effect the fragile barrier islands in the next 20 years. Most of them negative; I advocate for personal education. So preparedness is realized. Remember, there are 3 stages of denial.
    Andrew, you are having a hard time shedding your overt elitism. Exemplified mostly by your categorical minimization of any factor that does not support your disposition. There will be no common ground when your ilk continues this type of narrative. And, contrary to your warped sense of what a free market is, it does not include oppressive regulation. It's like taking a body of water away from an area then blaming the people who live there for not learning to swim.
    You have a problem with the early OBX residents shooting birds "for sport"? I don't suppose they ate any of them, do you? Regardless, what does that have to do with today? Also, you have a problem with altering genetic expression? Are you anti-evolution also? Plus, as far as turtles are concerned--they make a nest, lay eggs in it AND ABANDON IT. Also, why are other indigenous species being culled by the rangers?

    Let's also break down your claim about "a FEW bait stores will see their margins drop" (this by the way is exemplary of your minimization of any factor that counters your ultimate agenda). So, a few "bait stores." First, they are called tackle shops--they sell much more than bait and provide a much larger service than just selling bait and there are many more of them than a few. To you, they are the only ones affected but I am saying you are horribly wrong. There are hotels, motels and rental properties leased by the fishermen--they rely on them as their first injection of money after a long off season so they can afford to stay open during the peak season. There are also fishing guides, who the fishermen hire to take them out for something other than surf fishing during their trip. Again, these fishermen provide their first injection of revenue for the year that will help them keep their boats repaired, pay their insurance, captains license dues and hire mates to help out on charters. Then there are the restaurants where these fishermen eat and the gas stations where they buy gas and the grocery stores where they buy groceries. Are you starting to get the big picture yet? These same fishermen also bring their families with them. The folks in their families who do not fish go out and spend money at the restaurants and boutiques--they travel out of Hatteras village into Buxton and Avon to shop around there too. Plus, let's not forget the NC ferry system which has seen ridership drop during the bad economy--they are now having to raise fares to account for the shortfall, doesn't look like they will be getting that early season injection of cash either. We are talking about an already weak and fragile economy that is very vulnerable to the current economic climate without even taking the enviro push into account. To many of these small businesses, a non-existent spring fishing season could be the difference between staying open or going bankrupt. See, I'm talking about a lot more than an few human beings being affected by literally a FEW birds.

    On another note, I'm sure there are scientists everywhere who might agree with you and the course of action you support. But, that's also how scientists justify their jobs in many cases. It seems like some of them don't feel like they are doing their job unless they are rallying around some group of the great unwashed to change their lives. And do you think people are buying your "I advocate for personal education" lie? Nothing you have written supports this claim, quite the opposite. This is where it comes down to the fact that this very much is a Blue Collar vs White Collar issue--you are just too blinded by your arrogance and self-importance to take a step back and try to understand how your ingrained disposition and prejudice comes across in your discourse.

    And, for the record, it's "aforementioned" not "a fore mentioned."

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erock View Post
    Andrew, you are having a hard time shedding your overt elitism. Exemplified mostly by your categorical minimization of any factor that does not support your disposition. There will be no common ground when your ilk continues this type of narrative. And, contrary to your warped sense of what a free market is, it does not include oppressive regulation. It's like taking a body of water away from an area then blaming the people who live there for not learning to swim.
    You have a problem with the early OBX residents shooting birds "for sport"? I don't suppose they ate any of them, do you? Regardless, what does that have to do with today? Also, you have a problem with altering genetic expression? Are you anti-evolution also? Plus, as far as turtles are concerned--they make a nest, lay eggs in it AND ABANDON IT. Also, why are other indigenous species being culled by the rangers?

    Let's also break down your claim about "a FEW bait stores will see their margins drop" (this by the way is exemplary of your minimization of any factor that counters your ultimate agenda). So, a few "bait stores." First, they are called tackle shops--they sell much more than bait and provide a much larger service than just selling bait and there are many more of them than a few. To you, they are the only ones affected but I am saying you are horribly wrong. There are hotels, motels and rental properties leased by the fishermen--they rely on them as their first injection of money after a long off season so they can afford to stay open during the peak season. There are also fishing guides, who the fishermen hire to take them out for something other than surf fishing during their trip. Again, these fishermen provide their first injection of revenue for the year that will help them keep their boats repaired, pay their insurance, captains license dues and hire mates to help out on charters. Then there are the restaurants where these fishermen eat and the gas stations where they buy gas and the grocery stores where they buy groceries. Are you starting to get the big picture yet? These same fishermen also bring their families with them. The folks in their families who do not fish go out and spend money at the restaurants and boutiques--they travel out of Hatteras village into Buxton and Avon to shop around there too. Plus, let's not forget the NC ferry system which has seen ridership drop during the bad economy--they are now having to raise fares to account for the shortfall, doesn't look like they will be getting that early season injection of cash either. We are talking about an already weak and fragile economy that is very vulnerable to the current economic climate without even taking the enviro push into account. To many of these small businesses, a non-existent spring fishing season could be the difference between staying open or going bankrupt. See, I'm talking about a lot more than an few human beings being affected by literally a FEW birds.

    On another note, I'm sure there are scientists everywhere who might agree with you and the course of action you support. But, that's also how scientists justify their jobs in many cases. It seems like some of them don't feel like they are doing their job unless they are rallying around some group of the great unwashed to change their lives. And do you think people are buying your "I advocate for personal education" lie? Nothing you have written supports this claim, quite the opposite. This is where it comes down to the fact that this very much is a Blue Collar vs White Collar issue--you are just too blinded by your arrogance and self-importance to take a step back and try to understand how your ingrained disposition and prejudice comes across in your discourse.

    And, for the record, it's "aforementioned" not "a fore mentioned."
    Did you get that peer reviewed at school?

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by super fish View Post
    Did you get that peer reviewed at school?
    Mayh home skooolin tawt meh sum sterfs. Deh towled meh I ursed "also" tuh mech. 'pose deh whar reght 'bowt dert.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erock View Post
    Mayh home skooolin tawt meh sum sterfs. Deh towled meh I ursed "also" tuh mech. 'pose deh whar reght 'bowt dert.
    I see. I do see a lot of "also" now that I skim through your nonsense...

  6. #66
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    Whew...what a flat spell we have had lately :P

  7. #67
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    E rock is right. The fish and wild life service are trying to change access to assateague va because of the birds. It all boils down to 2 things. They need to 1. Open there mind up 2. Put some common sense in there.

  8. #68
    Wow, delusion about what is going on with a population that has increased over a hundred million in the last hundred years and its effect on the coast here in the east has led to complete f---ing denial. I'm done arguing reason so I will just this, you know who you are, look up the word logic and apply it to your argument...How would the obx look if there wasn't some form of protection afforded it in the 20th century?

  9. #69
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    do i see waves in the forecast? uh yesssssssss! on my days off... and may be getting a ride down to the outer banks. day instantly better.

  10. #70
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    Erock, How many guides take fisherman to the point?I also fail to see how beach closings impact fishing charters? If you ever picked up a history book regarding the Outer Banks, pertaining to the 19th and early 20th century, you would know that very few shorebirds were eaten. The birds were shot indiscriminately for sport for many years. My point was to highlight the historical dismissal of many avian species. Birds and other animals generally take on the flavor of their food..ie fish. Yes, there are other industries which will derive income from the fishermen. But how much revenue?And how significantly is the income impacted from a temporary beach closure? I would be interested in seeing some quantified numbers. I empathize with the local business owners; but I honestly feel that this issue is being blown out of proportion on both sides.The beach closures are just one facet of a weak economy. Pragmatism and a realization that there is a retraction in the economy to me, sounds more plausible. Scientists have a duty to advocate, and to present data which supports their theories, or research to the public. Especially, when the species longevity depends upon it. Please post some hard numbers, and/or studies, which can support your assertions.There is probably a reason why many scientists make similar statements paralleling mine....Biased studies are a problem in academia; which is why something called the peer reviewal process is utilized, along with citations. I think you are confused regarding stress induced genetic expression. Google the subject.There are specific time windows when marine turtles will nest; the nesting process necessitates significant energy output. Turtles which are forced to make numerous attempts to nest have a decreased chance of survival. The ecological information is all found on the marvelous internet, or in a Library.I apologize if you perceive my statements as arrogant; the information speaks for itself. Thank you for the spell check; you would make my high school English teacher proud.
    Last edited by andrewk529; Apr 15, 2012 at 04:25 AM.