as sorry as it seems the reality is that a computer will cut a board more accurately and more symetrically then a person(and faster too). but just because rusty uses a machine to cut the board shape, it still MUST be finished by human hands before it gets glassed.
Its just the way the world is going.
as sorry as it seems the reality is that a computer will cut a board more accurately and more symetrically then a person(and faster too).
Accurate is accurate, and symmetrical is symmetrical, whether cut by hand or machine. You can't get "more symmetrical" than symmetrical. If your shaper can't do that, find another shaper. I've seen enough snapped boards to know even the big names don't get it right sometimes. Just because you have a machine shaped blank does not mean it's perfect. There's a lot more to machine cutting than just popping a board up on a rack and pushing a button.
As for glass jobs... Greenlight Brian says you should be given a choice... "strong" or "light," and I agree. Only a custom board builder can do that for you.
my feelings are that CI's and the like are for pros and spoiled cali kids who are basically sponsored by their parents.
Take any CI board into someone like Tim Nolte and he can make you a "fryer" or a "dumpster driver" for $450 or so, if you know what I mean.
Take your intentions/ ideas to a guy like Jesse Fernandez or Tmoore (I have a thing for wrv) and they will always amaze you. That is basically what the pros get to do with Al Merick.
I think having a guy that surfs the same waves as you making your sticks is critical. Having the right equipment is what is important, not what the sticker says or what pro's are riding it, because guess what? Pros are better than you and that pro model board is only holding you back.
I think your premise is right on target Lee, but let me give a counter argument based on a couple of decades of trial and error. I used to religiously use only local shapers, have owned many boards shaped by Nolte, Fernandez, McCarthy, Head, Hickman, Frierson, Keesecker, Kearns, Jimenez (all local shapers).
There are two among this list that I developed long standing relationships with. The first, after a couple of years, began to press me to ride boards that were more in keeping with the general trends of the market than in line with my surfing. This brings up problem #1: Local shapers are often REACTIVE rather than CREATIVE, meaning that they wait for the next big trend to hit and start cranking out copies of the latest Mayhem shape (remember "golf ball" dimple-bottomed boards in late 80s, early 90s). I worked longest with the second shaper. He and I dialed in some dimensions that were really working great for me. Of 4 boards that were supposed to be exactly the same, 1 was great, 1 was decent, 2 were dogs(!), and one inexplicably weighed about 2lbs more than the others (although the glassing was supposed to be identical). Which brings us to problem #2: When you are not using a computer-assisted shaping machine, boards of "exact" dimensions will never be truly the same board. There is certainly some variation with CAD boards, but much less.
Both of the aforementioned shapers are skilled craftsman and popular to this day. But, personally, I've come to a point where I know exactly how my surfing will work with a particular board. If I destroy a favorite (let's say a Merrick Dumpster Diver), I would love to put the exact same board back under my feet.
Certainly, a large % of the surfing population is only buying CIs or Mayhem's because they have no clue and think that somehow owning a NeckBeard will allow them to do a quadruple-flip-rodeo-nosepick like Dane. However... there are reasons that go deeper than pure marketing for why these shapers have become so popular.
I would not define industry leaders' popularity as a "craze," but I definitely think that the given labels are highly overrated. CI was recently bought out by Burton and a lot of their shapers joined up with other labels. Rusty hit rock bottom when they moved their facility to Mexico. Now, you can buy Rusty clothing at K-Mart and other blue light special shops. Clothing aside, I do not trust Rusty boards anymore, despite the fact that "they are back." I do not have a grudge on Lost, but I think we can all agree that we can get similar, if not greater quality, from local shapers or other labels. At the end of the day, a surfboard is simply a surfboard.
have you ever heard the term "its not the board,its the surfer"....it doesnt matter what board u ride,i seen guys get barreled on fukin doors and plywood!u can get barreled and throw spray on a longboard.i see too many kids nowadays trying to ride shortboards,and i seen guys on longboards with more style.i understand u have to start somewhere but its not that hard.maybe because i skated my whole life so i know how to carve and punt,but it doesnt matter what board your on.personally,id love to try to surf on a ci,or lost or rusty.but im a poor guy that can only afford beat up used boards,and they work great for me.sometimes u break boards when its big,so id rather break a board i payed 50$ for rather than break a 700$board when i could have used that to pay my rent.everybody starts off on a longboard,and over the years u transition to something shorter,but lately i just see guys surf,and videos on here with people that have no style.like why are u surfing?seriously??if i had the funds and the support some of u kiddies get from your parents,id definitly be on the pro level.i can only compare myself to dean randazzo.he is a legend to me,and hes more important than the president.heres a guy who surfed hurricanes on ducttaped boards,scavange enough doe to buy a plane ticket to a contest in brazil,and have to sell half his quiver for a plane ticket back...thats how i am.maybe its just that people who come from fukd up backgrounds are the ones who succeed in the sport,as a shytty life brings out real character and we have to fight hard for what we want.but ill never be a pro cuz im a fat drunken kook
I've got a CI Pod and its the best stick I've ever ridden, hands down. I had a Fletcher Chouinard shaped up for me a few years ago and its not bad when its 5+ foot and heaving, but in anything else it was poor at best. Probably my mistake for dialing in a rocketship when my homebreak isn't in Tahiti - live and learn. I still break it out when there are walls, but the Pod seems to perform as good (if not better) in heavier stuff as the FCD. If the surfboard gods allow for it, I'll ride the Pod for another couple of years, easy. Plus the local shops treat the locals well, so I'm not paying the ultra top dollar for the "Kelly Factor".
I think your premise is right on target Lee, but let me give a counter argument based on a couple of decades of trial and error....
I can appreciate this. Personally I think variety is the spice of life and I feel like my surfing and what I want to do is always changing/ evolving... But if you know what you want, and have trouble getting it locally, you gotta do what you gotta do. Sounds like you are vb / obx if you want get up for a session some time do holler.
I think this mentality is great…the holier than thou attitude about lesser known local shapers vs bash on successful big name local shapers... Im all about the the local guys which are usually some of the ghost shapers for the big players around these parts. I think maybe its because of where you live (east coast) because in my opinion its just a proximity issue. Its based on the fact that companies like CI, Lost, JS, JC, BECKER, BING, Takayama…all have people like said "local shapers" working for them at some point or another and if any of those companies were based over there I'm sure it would be a different story.
I always hear about the ones that everyone swears by or favor, and usually they ghost shape for one of those "reputable" companies or has in the past. Not gonna name drop all the west coast dudes but a lot of those guys are accessible and have their own labels (ala East coasting Tommy Moore)…usually have many many years of cutting foam from templates prior to getting cut a paycheck by corporate america for buffing one out. Im pretty sure that most of your local shapers would jump at the chance if one of those companies said, hey I love your boards and you do amazing work, would you like to a steady stream of boards to shape if business is slow?
Not saying everyone would but if you gotta feed the family sometimes, and maybe its a easier pill to swallow. But for those who don't, won't. For whatever reasons or beliefs and I respect that immensely.
Yeah the glass jobs are soft, not sure if its the blanks that they use or just the house glassers. FYI I have requested moonlight glassing and bob haakenson for more "permanent" glassing. I turn over boards so much that I don't need to worry if it will last a couple years or not cause I get rid of them well before that…unless I come across a magic board…then I keep them til they break, fix, and repeat.
Gotten plenty of custom local guy boards too. I like trying every little variation of boards and seeing if my sorry ass can notice those slight subtleties…or those crazy freaking weird ones too…those are a blast. Over here since so many companies are based here we get a lot of demo days where the local and big name players show up in their vans or box trucks with boat loads of boards. I get to try 8-10 boards usually each time out…tons of sizes in each model. So a great way to figure out if that pro model board is all hype or a dud for your ability and needs. The ones I do like I start hunting for or order up. Or if I like certain aspects of one and some of the other I keep those in mind as well.
The plus to getting a pricey CI board is that you have a much easier resale (time and money) and while this isn't why or how most people think, I just get too bored to stay attached. A no name board no matter how good that shaper is will have a much harder time convincing the general public that this is a screaming deal at said price. Toyota vs hyundai…both great but one is pricer and an easier resale, even if the hyundai has better value.
Its much easier for me to order a board through CI request a shaper and get the exact board that I want knowing who will get it and what i want and sell that ci vs. selling his local brand saying this guy is a ghost shaper til some educated buyer comes along and snipes it cause he realizes what he is getting.
The same narrow mindedness CI only douchebags have is no better or worse than the "custom only!, screw CIs douchebag"
Keep an open mind and try them all, its supposed to be fun…and after all its just a board.
PS dont anyone get bent outta shape because of my crappy opinion and observations...thats all it is. Carry on
Well said... I believe that you have officially concluded this discussion!