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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Kenai Peninsula, Alaska
    Posts
    470
    interesting. just heard a story about homesteading and the homestead act last weekend. some believe it is responsible for creating the american character and the rural middle class. come on up to alaska archy. plenty of cheap land and good surf. it is starting to get dark though...
    link to story:

    http://www.npr.org/2012/09/16/161228...nto-u-s-fabric

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Capo Beach
    Posts
    152
    If 30% (this is a wild guess) of the population moved from urban living to homesteading, we would probably run out of land and the population would have to decrease drastically. There are over 300 million people in this country and the vast majority (80%) live in or near a metropolitan area. The only reason that we are able to sustain and grow this population is because we don't all live on farms any more. Additionally, the increase in productivity in farming has allowed us to feed this population.

    Do we need to find sustainable ways to live? Sure, but to go back to being a nation of farmers and homesteaders would necessitate a huge drop in the population of this country. So, is it worth it if, say, 100 million people (again, a wild guess) have to die to support your dream of a nation of homesteaders?

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Kenai Peninsula, Alaska
    Posts
    470
    Quote Originally Posted by zrich View Post
    So, is it worth it if, say, 100 million people (again, a wild guess) have to die to support your dream of a nation of homesteaders?
    ask the native americans...

  4. #14
    I'm down, all we need is good companym healthy food and some gnarly waves. Hell I'll live in a shake the rest if my life if it means riding waves and doing what I love everyday. Let the politicians and the Barney's worry about the gov't and how it's run. I just want to go surf.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Carolina Beach
    Posts
    689
    ^^healthy food and some gnarly waves. Hell I'll live in a shake the rest if my life^^
    Maybe you could live in a smoothie..

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Long branch
    Posts
    710
    I thank all who contribute with open mindedness. 100 million probably will die when this system collapses. If alot of people have'nt noticed, water is becoming scarce. Why do you think companies like Coca Cola and Nestle are buying up most of the world's water rights. Residents of Maine have undergone water restrictions, but the Poland Spring's (Nestle) trucks leave on or ahead of schedule during those times. People have got to wake up. Many are too busy cheering on their favorite team while consuming corporate goods. 5% of the population-25% of the resources. It's that simple. If your not willing to, then how about this If you want to see gas go down in price: stop eating beef. It takes 25 gallons of gasoline and 2500 gallons of water for the production of 1 pound of beef. Your tax dollars pay for that through subsidies from the government. Also the increase of large scale farming requires tons of pesticides and herbacides. Resulting in soil degredation, polluted enviornments, and an increases of cancer. It is not sustainable. Where the 80% percent now live, used to be farm land. Here in Jersey where I live, we had farms right here at the beach. Now its filled with yuppies who commute to Manhattan every day. The whole monetary system and the life that revolves around it is why there are wars, famines, and polution. It will not last forever. And if any of you have children and care about their future you should take note.

  7. #17
    We will all be dead by the time we run out of fossil fuels and water.
    There's nothing wrong with being conscious of our ecosystem, but your video subliminally puts into peoples minds that attacking and blowing sh!t up is the answer.
    And, indeed, it is not.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    kailua-kona
    Posts
    437
    Images
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by archy View Post
    I The whole monetary system and the life that revolves around it is why there are wars, famines, and polution. It will not last forever. And if any of you have children and care about their future you should take note.
    You don't really know a lot about history do you?. Wars, famine and pollution have existed (and likely will exist) as long as human beings do.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Kenai Peninsula, Alaska
    Posts
    470
    archy fwiw i agree with a lot of what you're saying and it's partly why i moved to alaska. if you truly believe what you're saying then just find a place where you can provide for your 'family' no matter what (by family i mean whoever you care about. and by no matter what i mean no matter WHAT). up here, 1 moose and 65 salmon is more than enough protein for my family of 4 for 1 winter. 10 acres of spruce covered land is enough wood to keep the stove going into the foreseeable future. my job (or the entire economy) might not last forever but my family won't be hungry or cold when the ****e hits the fan. and it will.

    and the empty breaks will still be empty and the (recently dumped upon) chugach will still be collecting pow. yeeeeeeew!!!

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Stayin' Classy in San Diego
    Posts
    2,210
    Quote Originally Posted by archy View Post
    I thank all who contribute with open mindedness. 100 million probably will die when this system collapses. If alot of people have'nt noticed, water is becoming scarce. Why do you think companies like Coca Cola and Nestle are buying up most of the world's water rights. Residents of Maine have undergone water restrictions, but the Poland Spring's (Nestle) trucks leave on or ahead of schedule during those times. People have got to wake up. Many are too busy cheering on their favorite team while consuming corporate goods. 5% of the population-25% of the resources. It's that simple. If your not willing to, then how about this If you want to see gas go down in price: stop eating beef. It takes 25 gallons of gasoline and 2500 gallons of water for the production of 1 pound of beef. Your tax dollars pay for that through subsidies from the government. Also the increase of large scale farming *requires tons of pesticides and herbacides. Resulting in soil degredation, polluted enviornments, and an increases of cancer. It is not sustainable. Where the 80% percent now live, used to be farm land. Here in Jersey where I live, we had farms right here at the beach. Now its filled with yuppies who commute to Manhattan every day. The whole monetary system and the life that revolves around it is why there are wars, famines, and polution. It will not last forever. And if any of you have children and care about their future you should take note.
    A dissenting opinion*

    Sorry for how long this is.

    Man, I hate these harbingers of doom, shouting from the Mtn tops about how the world is gonna end. "You're all gonna die. I'm the only one who knows the truth. Listen to me. Drink the kool-aid."

    Yeah, times are tough, they've been tough before, they'll be tough again. They've been good before, they'll be even better someday. I believe that whole heartedly. I like all people: the good, the bad and the ugly; and I'll take a Gran Torino w/ a 429 cobra jet over a Prius any day. I humbly bow to the Mayor of Carmel for inspiration.

    Let's just start with the idea that there isn't enough to go around. That in a couple of years, we're all gonna be at each other's throats, scrabbling to survive. Me n Paul Chen hand n hand with Les Baer, walking down Cormac McCarthy's road. What could cause such a thing?

    Not enough water. That's the elephant in the room in my mind. You think everything takes oil? Everything takes water.

    I turn to the law of conservation of matter, which states that matter cannot be created or destroyed in an isolated system. Anyone who's ever read Dune understands that a planet is an isolated system. The water that makes up the world is only held in various storage containers and like all systems of economy, the problem is not resource; but distribution. There's plenty of water, but not all of it's potable either due to salinity or pollution. The answer is desalinization and water treatment. The Arabs are doin it; up in Carlsbad, they're approved to build a desalinization plant (no easy feet in regulation happy California) thereby drastically easing NoCoSD's (hurricanes are birthed on butterfly wings) dependence on the Colorado river and the Sierra Madre & Nevada's snow melt, all of which are over-taxed. Mostly by the fountains at the Bellagio. Not that I begrudge them, this isn't Ice Pirates and the Chihuily display is amazing and every time I walk over it, it reminds me why I'm a glass blower. So, plenty of water and we have the technology; but, there's a catch, energy (we'll get to food in a second). Desalinization is mighty expensive energy wise. There are low tech methods (plastic tents and ol sol) that have been around for years, here's two:

    http://www.coe.neu.edu/Depts/MIE/pdf..._Low-Cost_.pdf
    &
    http://www.ehow.com/how_7841593_desi...ion-plant.html

    But, spending your time in a basic sustenance survival type of society doesn't appeal to me as it leaves little time for leisure activities, like surfing, so let's stay high tech. Which takes energy, lots and lots of it.*

    Not enough energy.

    As several posters have mentioned on both of these threads (why are there two threads?), we are undergoing an American energy revolution not seen since the days of Titusville and Spindletop (read Daniel Yergin's the prize). This is up there with gettin' off whale oil. Extraction techniques that aren't profitable at 35$ are very profitable at 100$ a barrel. Fracking, the removal of oil from tar sands and deep water extraction have become proven methods and the costs have come down over the last 20-30 years as the technology has improved. *Safety has too. I'm from the Gulf, I was born in New Orleans and my mama's family's been in Corpus since it was part of la Frontera del Norte. I love those waters. The BP spill is bad, not was, and the effects will be felt for years. Drop in the bucket compared to Campeche in '79. When I was real little, every time we came out the water, fore we could hop in my grandaddy's Suburban, we'd have to clean the tar off our feet. Should we stop drilling? Why can't we just make it better? We've had fracking in Texas for 20+ years. What's happening in PA right now's terrible from what I hear and have read. I've kayaked the upper Delaware an I have friends from Williamsport. People are greedy and a lot of corners are bein cut. That doesn't mean the tech's no good, ethics are ethics, that's different. Some have, some don't. Some how we've turned into a culture where entities, both corporate and individual aren't held accountable for their actions.

    We have natural gas to last us 100's of years in this country. Every car could run on it, I've known plenty of people who've converted their trucks or hippy buses to it over the years. FedEx and Eaton have been converting their trucks to it for the last couple of years. Every bus in San Diego county runs on it. Honda makes a Civic that runs on it. That desalinization plant I mentioned in the paragraph above, it'll be powered by the little natural gas turbines up at the power plant, which is right up on the coast in Cbad too. It burns pretty clean. Besides that, there are so many alternative forms of energy that get better year over year. Brazil is an energy positive country, meaning they export more n they use. I may not follow pro surfing, but I know one thing, the brazzos ain't gonna one up us for too long. The wind farms going up all over Texas and the solar panels on everyone's roofs out here have convinced me of that. That and round these parts I see more Fisker Karmas than Ferraris these days. If T Boone Pickens says we can be energy independent, I believe him and he's an Okie, so that's a stretch. The Tex lege voted him 40 bill to run transmission lines from his wind farms out near El Paso, so I guess they believe in him too, long term it might work.*

    The munchies.

    *The fam and I walk down to the local farmers' market on Sundays. For dinner, this last Sunday we had a salad made from greens, tomatoes and sprouts, all grown hydroponically. That used 80-90% less water than traditional drip irrigation. Nitrogen and phosphorus (fertilizers) are everywhere, I surf in kelp and sea weed all the time. We had grilled zucchini and yellow squash, some organic pan seared tofu and some fresh Ahi that F.I.L. went out and caught. All of it, except the Ahi (F.I.L. was in Mexican waters) came from San Diego County, a place with 3 million people.

    Food is easy. All it takes is energy in the form of chemicals and sun light. Are you tellin me that's impossible? I think that we're smarter than that. My Dad's been turnin quarter acre lots of sand out on Padre into oases my whole life.

    No matter who wins the election this year, we're all going to win. I believe that both tickets are winners this time around. Romney's a real sharp cat. So's Obama. The next four years are going to be good for this country, no matter who wins. This country is strong, it's people are strong. We will endure.

    Personally, I ain't gonna stop eatin Double Doubles. I've raised a calf before, they're the sweetest animals I know, Nelly Moser. Also, you think surfings great? My great great grand kids we'll be terraforming Mars. That sounds like an adventure. Richard Branson ain't dumb, they're all ready sellin tickets to the moon.p

    Archy, if you've never been to Alaska, do it. It takes guts up there. You want to homestead, there you go, all it takes is gumption. Last frontiermf America. Cresto, as always my hats off to anyone who's up there in the land of the midnight Sun, specially one who paddles out.

    SouthJettyBill/LeeTheStud 2016
    Cause the herb n topless beaches have been illegal for too long.
    Last edited by zaGaffer; Oct 5, 2012 at 08:22 AM. Reason: Stupid auto keerect, it's Gran Torino, not Grand Torino