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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by LBCrew View Post
    You could say the same thing about highway tolls, which don't exist in about half of the other states.
    that's because they pay for the roads with a gas tax. Gas in California is about $2 more expensive than NJ, per gallon. It's ridiculous.
    NJ has some of the cheapest gas in the country.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by ECkneelo View Post
    All those poor NJ surfers and residents are brainwashed about beach fees. In California they have much larger/wider beaches, millions more beach goers ALL year round, not just in the summer and there are no beach fees. That's what taxes are for and NJ still has higher taxes. The beaches in HB are raked every morning, trash trucks drive around on the sand and lifeguards cruise the beaches in vehicles in the winter. We get people from LA. and every other inland city and sure I have walked by a pair of used diapers, but what are you going to do, that's just the way some people are. It's not a reason for extra fees.<br />The NJ lifeguarding is a joke with their little flagged off sections for swimming. Might as well be a pool.<br />That's why I only surfed there in the dead of winter. I wish I had a suggestion on how NJ surfers could change things, but it's pretty ingrained in the culture I think.
    <br /><br />I've been saying the same thing for years dude. Every time I go out west its just amazing to see huge, clean beaches with better amenities and no fee’s. Theory; So cal beach goers are bred to respect the beach and take pride in it because its free for everyone to share, NJ beach goers are slobs BECAUSE THEY ARE PAYING TO GET ON and feel that \"Someone\" should pick up their mess like a bus boy in a restaurant. In a perfect world this would can be an opportunity to educate NJ people take pride in the beach, have the state govt manage combing and stop these greedy little towns from charging people to go on the beach. <br />Check out surfrider.org for some interesting rules for beach access in NJ—Surfers are getting screwed more than anyone else on the beach badge deal. <br />

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
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    356
    Quote Originally Posted by ECkneelo View Post
    Your just plain wrong Dave. Really, your trying to say you have more people going to more square footage of beach in NJ? Keep kidding yourself. You didn't make your argument very clear either.
    Like I said, beach maintenance should already be paid for with your state taxes that come from a general fund or something, not a beach community charging for what should be free. And to further trample your argument, yes, California does YEAR ROUND maintenance with zero beach tags, unlike NJ which only has to maintain the beaches for 3-4 months. That means it requires LESS money for NJ Dave. But your a shining example of the problem with NJ.
    Is it fair to charge the whole state? Sure is, it just requires a tiny bit from a bigger pool. Don't like it? Well I don't like my tax dollars going to Pakistan, or Egypt, but they do, but I digress...
    you need to work on your reading comprehension skills. NJ has thicker population density. More people going to less square footage of beach than anywhere in the country, including CA, as well as way better public transportation options going to the beachfront than CA. More people = more garbage, more need for policing, rescue services, road usage, etc. Its not just garbage pickup and lifeguards. If a state-wide "Beach tax" were put to a referendum it would fail spectacularly. So, the $$ has to come from someplace. Drive a few hrs inland Southern CA and you hit unpopulated desert or farmland. Drive a few hrs inland from NJ coast and you hit Pittsburgh (3m population) NJ is the most densely populated state in the country, by far. SO many people seem so desperate to make beach tags all about politics or class resentment. Its simple math.

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
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    Wilmington
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    Quote Originally Posted by stinkbug View Post
    again- beaches in NC are owned by the STATE, not the towns.
    Yes, technically. But it is up to the municipalities to maintain and regulate them. ie the Town of Carolina Beach regulates 4x4 access on the North End (Freeman Park). The beach is technically owned by the State but the State has no say in how it's regulated. Ft. Fisher State Park, on the other hand, is wholly owned and controlled by the state with no municipal involvement. The State and only the State regulates 4x4 access and everything else there.

    Also, the State's "ownership" is actually a Public Land Trust that relieves the state of any liability associated with the beach in the form of drownings, rednekkin accidents, alien abductions, tsunamis, earth quakes, hurricanes, stupidity, et al. The municipalities in NC provide other services like lifeguards and such in an effort to protect their citizens and visitors to attract more tourism in the future. As far as I know, there is no municipal liability associated with the beach--below the dune line. Well, other than when one of the lifeguard trucks runs over you while sunbathing.... Then the municipality has a liability issue.

    How is it set up differently in NJ? Are the counties the ones who actually own the beach up there or just the local municipalities? Who controls beaches located in a county but not associated with a municipality?

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by stinkbug View Post
    that's because they pay for the roads with a gas tax. Gas in California is about $2 more expensive than NJ, per gallon. It's ridiculous.
    NJ has some of the cheapest gas in the country.
    NJ has gas tax too, the price of gas is close to what I pay here--although NC has a higher gas tax I believe. And yes, that is how we pay for our roads. It's a little more transparent in respect to accounting and accountability.

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
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    Monmouth Beach, NJ
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    The state passes legislation, and the state supreme court determines case law, regarding access and eminent domain. But municipalities are charged with enforcing the laws. So some towns do... some don't. The DEP does not show up to monitor municipalities' regulation of beach access, and has no power to prohibit beach tags, blackball surfing, mandate parking and amenities... but maybe they should.

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
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    Stayin' Classy in San Diego
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    Quote Originally Posted by ECkneelo View Post
    Sorry if you misunderstood what I meant. I wasn't ragging the lifeguards. I am sure they didn't come up with the idea to have tiny flagged off swimming areas and to blow the whistle when people go past the shorebreak. That has been my experience in NJ.
    Your welcome to experience the way it is here in Cali if you ever come out. Totally different. People can swim wherever they want, plenty of lifeguards here to deal with it.
    There are sections marked Swimming Only and Surfing Only in San Diego on certain beaches in the Summer. It's not common and there's plenty of room for surfers and swimmers, but it happens. Del Mar, PB and MB come to mind. It's probably a lot different though, huh?
    Last edited by zaGaffer; Dec 13, 2012 at 06:51 PM.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Erock View Post
    NJ has gas tax too, the price of gas is close to what I pay here--although NC has a higher gas tax I believe. And yes, that is how we pay for our roads. It's a little more transparent in respect to accounting and accountability.
    saying gas prices in Cal are the same in NJ is like saying the pizza is just as good...no truth in it.
    I was shocked at gasoline prices in California when I lived there, and during many visits.
    Yes NJ has a gas tax, as do all states, but it's far less than Cal. They make up the difference with tolls.

  9. #49
    Gas prices are running about 0.70 cents higher per gallon than NJ...mostly due to their gas tax being 2x that of NJ. That's why we have tolls...plain and simple.
    Now, back to beach badges....

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by stinkbug View Post
    The difference is the STATE of California owns Cal's beaches. In NJ the beaches are owned by the towns/municipalities. The State owned beaches like Island Beach State Park charge for parking, but you can walk right in if you want without a fee. Sandy Hook is owned by the Federal Government, and they charge for parking, but you can also walk into Sandy Hook for free. The beach fees by the towns have always been a cash grab.
    Since the State of NJ is funding much of the repairs from Sandy, along with the Federal money, beaches in NJ should be transferred to ownership by the State and out of the towns control. Then then would be free. This would also limit the liability of the towns (which they are paranoid about for getting sued if someone drowns- hence the ridiculous roped off swimming areas with overzealous lifeguards).
    The state of CA. does not own all the beaches. Huntington Beach, Newport, Seal Beach, Laguna and many others are city beaches with their own lifeguards. The beach between HB and Newport is state beach with a $15. parking fee a day for parking on the beach, but in all these places you can park for free in the neighborhoods, or off the main road parking. It's this way all over the state.
    The liability part is pretty amazing. How did that happen? Being able to sue the community because someone drowns is analogous to being able to sue the state if you crash on the freeway regardless of fault, because there wasn't a cop there to prevent it, or failed to prevent it.
    Must be why they didn't allow surfing at Sandy Hook a few years ago because of "high surf" and it was only five ft. LOL!
    Last edited by ECkneelo; Dec 14, 2012 at 06:27 PM.