Lots of shift talking going on here both ways. Here is my take.
The dude should obviously be a priority for the us gov. Make no mistake about it, our soldiers along with police, fire man, teachers, etc are our real modern day heroes. It's a shame that more is not being done to free this young man.
As far as going to Mexico and needing a gun, that IMO is not a good decision. Nothing good can come out of it. So you get pulled over by pinche ladrones and you are gonna have an ok corral moment? Three things will happen. 1) most likely you end up getting shot. 2 you both shoot each other. 3 you shoot the guy......and then what happens? You go to jail or get shot by the notoriously corrupt Mexican police. All for what? tosave aa few hundred dollars and not lose face?Lose
Lose lose. T He real response to getting robbed in Mexico is to give them whatever they want and move on.....and keep your life.
There are clearly a lot of responses on here from people who have never really traveled in Mexico....and I don't mean the Mayan riviera. Yes, the border is extremely sketchy at the moment but the truth of the matter is the majority of Mexico is very safe....stay out of the five or six major cartel hot spots dont buy drugs and only travel during daylight and you will be fine. How do I know this? I have traveled all over Mexico ...almost every state. Just spent 6weekos there this summer...traveling by local bus the entire wAy. In fact, when you consider the insane amount of armed murder going on in cities like Chicago, l a etc, you realize mex is not any less safe than many parts of the states.
To the people calling the entire country a s hole and berating the Mexican people, well frankly there is no time for that racist bs on this forum. You are ignorant and sound quite short sighted. And cool, please bypass mex nick etc and go to your surf camp in Costa Rica. We don't need you in the waves anyway....it's amazing how many people are afraid to sac up and have a real adventure
Finally, to the guy that is afraid to go anywhere without a gun.....you my friend, need to consider getting some help.
Results 51 to 60 of 76
Thread: American Surfer jailed in Mexico
Dec 16, 2012, 12:33 AM #51
I don't mean to be mean at you ClemsonSurf or to laugh at you, but boy do you say some really stupid things. You just don't understand the world. Sorry, pal, you wouldn't make it into my world.
What you don't realize, is that George Zimmerman and all people in the world of enforcement should have to know who the people are first. But there's no rule like that, and you might think that it's not practical. But it IS practical when people are talented. And I'm a talented person. I doubt you're as talented as I am. You support the people who have the least gift in themselves. The problem with the United States is it's being run by dunces. You might think that the American legal system isn't just stupid.
People on this forum need to stop saying that I'm naive. I'm an unusually experienced person of the world - I've done research and development all over the world. I've been everywhere and done it all. Maybe that's why I'm not scared. Even doug above says the same thing - the US government is doing the wrong thing all the time - how about the kid in New York City who got beaten to death by immigrants. He's right - they don't care who walks in to our country and kills us or takes our jobs away. And they don't ever change any of the laws even though the laws don't work. If it ain't broke, don't fix it, but if it's broke, you need somebody smarter to fix it. You and the US government aren't that somebody smarter - sorry, pal.
The country needs to be completely redone.
Dec 16, 2012, 03:06 AM #53
- Join Date
- Dec 2007
Scorchie. Lil buddy, I don't think you're as smart as you think you are. This country was based on a set of rules that allow its people to protect themselves from themselves and from an overbearing corrupt government. Without the ability to arm yourself you are a lamb in the woods. How many times in history has a government turned its weapons on its unarmed people? Too many times. What are you, a citizen of your country or a pet of the government? When a group of people turn over their ability to defend themselves they become a pet, a responsibility and sometimes a burden that needs to be eradicated. Gun owners and supporters of the 2nd amendment own and carry firearms to protect themselves from the common criminal and from the possibility of unjust government.
The state of the government today, the current administration and state and local governments are far removed from what this country was drawn up to be based on the constitution. Do yourself a favor and read it once or twice. You may find you agree with it some places
You say you've traveled the world, congratulations. I would like to one day too. Maybe your grasp of the English language isn't where it needs to be to communicate your thoughts clearly enough to express what you really mean. Bad things happen everyday. Some with guns some without. A guy was pushed onto the subway tracks in manhattan last week and cut in half... No weapons involved. A couple years ago my grandma was almost mugged but she was able to pull her .38 special and hold off two young criminals... No one was hurt. I can tear down a house with a hammer and I can build a house with that same hammer. A weapon is a tool, it's all about how you use it.
Dec 16, 2012, 04:09 AM #54
Dec 16, 2012, 11:40 PM #55Member
- Join Date
- Sep 2011
- East of AC
Dec 17, 2012, 12:22 AM #56Senior Member
- Join Date
- Aug 2010
Here it is in a nutshell, from someone who's worked on both borders for 20+ years, and lived near Mexico almost my entire life:
1) It is illegal for foreigners/tourists to possess or sell any type of firearm or ammunition in Mexico, PERIOD. There is no such thing as a "legal-length shotgun", particularly if you are not a Mexican citizen. Laws concerning firearms for Mexican citizens are extremely strict, and there is only ONE legal place in the entire country that is allowed to sell firearms to Mexican citizens, and it is tightly controlled by the military. That being said, anybody who has traveled into Mexico knows that there is a wide gap between "Mexican Law", and what actually happens down there.
2) A few of the posters here have stated that Mexico is a lawless toilet that our government should not be assisting in any way.
But what if we shut down Mexico completely, and turned them into our "enemy"? What type of enemy do you think they could become, right at our backdoor? My guess is, that they would be ruthless and dangerous. The Mexicans have proven that they will do ANYTHING for a dollar....they hate us already; why should we believe that they wouldn't allow terrorists or weapons of mass destruction through our doorstep for a handful of pesos?
I don't condone our government's relationship with Mexico....I'm only playing the Devil's Advocate. Obviously, Mexico fits the old adage of "Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer".
And for those who believe we should just go down there and kick their arses: Don't forget your history. We've already done it once, and look where it got us....exactly where we are today.
I don't believe that we know the whole story about what actually happened with this young man. I find it extremely hard to believe that any U.S. Customs officer, U.S. Immigration officer or Border Patrol Agent told him that it was OK to take ANY type of weapon down there.
My experience has been that with enough money, he will eventually be set free. The Mexicans, both the government as well as criminals, are extremely adept at this. You tell them you have $20, and they will find a way to get $50 out of you. They will hold him until they feel they won't be able to "bleed" him and his family any more, and they will deport him back to the U.S. after a lot of bullschitt fabricated red tape.
End of story.
Dec 17, 2012, 12:58 AM #57
US citizens are allowed to travel into Mexico with guns as long as they have a permit. There is a specific law forbidding shotguns under 25 inches for civilians.
Last edited by brewengineer; Dec 17, 2012 at 01:11 AM.
Yeah, I agree, we get bullied by the government, and I don't like that. I need to find a way to solve that problem, I just hope that I don't have to use violence, that's all, and you're right, I can't express my inner feelings about it in English sometimes - it's not that I don't grasp English, I just don't want to change the subject of the Marine down in Mexico, our thread's main issue. My excuse is that I'm not facing these issues enough head-on - I'm just talking about them (for the very first time in my life). So that Marine and George Zimmerman, and the other guy in Florida, and the guy in Manhattan, and now the guy on the tracks, these are all the straw that broke the camel's back - I want to deal with bullying from this day on. I was also bullied years ago by a college professor - he threatened me with racketeering against my destiny - that he would ruin my destiny by soliciting funds from wealthy people, and using them to put me out of jobs (I couldn't believe that something like that would happen at an Ivy-league quality school). The problem is that I was too busy to deal with him so I told him that I would box him in a ring (and give him 12 oz. gloves to my 16 oz. since I'm so much stronger than he is - I tried to be fair with him since I am way too strong for him). I still don't know what to do since I am the one who would win in a fight but I don't want to resort to violence - he's a really stupid guy from a dunce family. But sometimes we have to make a choice between losing, or else fighting to win. But there are things we can do (perhaps go to court) that aren't as illegal. The problem is that I hate having to go to court. But the truth is - that's the path I have to take now. It's that or I'll get caught breaking the law to solve the problem. Busy people don't want this crap in their lives - but sometimes we have to do things we don't want to do, and if you sue someone, you should hopefully get money for your troubles. I shouldn't be SO overly cynical about our government. I should try it sometimes. So now I'll let you guys get back to the marine since that's what I was supposed to discuss in this thread. I honestly don't know what to say about him other than what I've already said, "It's not that wrong to take a gun on a road-trip down south". I wouldn't do it myself, it's just not my style of dealing with issues, nor would I crucify someone else for doing it. On the other hand, Mexico may feel a responsibility to it's citizens - hence the arrest. I don't know enough about laws of guns and whether or not it was concealed. But the law is often too harsh so I worry about that marine and how they will treat him (witness brewengineer's comments which are true, although I don't want him to condemn all Mexicans, most Mexicans are perfectly good people). I mentioned Midnight Express out of fear for that Marine - it could get nasty. The law is rarely kind enough.
I don't know why some people like guns more than others - I've been either mugged or had attempted muggings both in the US and in other countries. But not one time was it anything real significant. I either chased someone away or in one case, the guys were twice my size and number so I gave them my golf clubs. It wasn't that big a deal to be threatened by a switch-blade and hit by a tire-iron. I was only 10 years old and they were 15. But I'm still here to enjoy life because I cooperated. If I had had a gun, they would be dead, but I don't think golf clubs are enough to kill someone over, so I lost a few dollars. In a subway in France I just swung at the guy and he took off. I also had a (slightly nuts) guy threaten me with a baseball bat but I did the right thing - I said go ahead, I'm waiting, and he chickened out. I laughed so f---ing hard at the guy - I'm still laughing. A baseball bat isn't something to worry about. A billy club IS something to worry about - they're heavier. All right, you guys win the argument. Guys like me, who had a lot of fistfights as a teenager, we're sometimes sick of the violence, that's all. I had friends who were almost blinded or maimed in fights. I just want less of it. But I see all your points - that there are some real threats to our safety - so do what you think you have to do - you were born on this earth, and you didn't ask for a complex set of rules that might hinder your ability to protect yourself. If that's the case, then the law should let people make their own decisions, using their own instincts. The law shouldn't ruin your instincts. In my case, I'm just not at all a worry-wart that someone wants to rob me at gunpoint. I just hope that you use discretion in your support of firearms and I hope that we put some time into finding peace amongst our disparate groups of people with our differing philosophies and behaviors. Perhaps we need to find ways to bring joy to the poverty-stricken. We need to go an extra mile each day to help the poor. I'm not poor and I get up at dawn without fail and I pitch in to help the needy every day. Some poor people are lost and they need help from someone smarter. But those who steal need to be punished so punish them if you want to do that. And if the guy on the tracks in Manhattan, had had a gun, he might be alive today. Enjoy!
Thank you for the information, particularly the statement by the US State Department under "Taking firearms into Mexico" - I had not known that a permit was required. And it's true - people get "bled" out of money by the law. But I think it's possible that a border worker might unintentionally say that it's ok to take a gun down there. They might not mention the permit - maybe that's where the confusion happened - I don't know.
I hope they release the marine right away as he may not have known the law. If I were a gun-owner, I wouldn't have known nor worried about it. Let's hope for his release.
Dec 18, 2012, 01:02 AM #60Junior Member
- Join Date
- Oct 2011