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  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by barrels4liam View Post
    It's amazing they arrest someone for climbing on a structure in the ocean while they don't arrest/deport illegal immigrants. We spend our resources/money on arresting US citizens instead of illegals which have the biggest impact on our debt and economy. Illegals receive services that should only be reserved for citizens. Healthcare, education, food stamps, welfare and section 8 housing are all services they receive. This adds billions to our debt every month. This doesn't even count the billions for housing illegal criminals in the prison system. It's amazing that they can break the law coming here. Then, have a baby which qualifies them for food stamps, welfare and section 8 housing. I talk to friends who are realtors. These illegals come into their offices approved with $2,000/ month for rental housing because they had babies here. Wow, I'm working my ass off and they are living better than me.

    This is the real problem with the country and why we will keep going further into debt. If they actually arrested/deported these people, the country would be able to use all this money for tax breaks or paying off the deficit. I was never a huge fan of welfare but it does serve a purpose as zgaffer says. There are some families who need it who are actually working. My problem is with non-US citizens who receive services that I pay for. It really gets to you when you see them only focusing on petty crimes by US citizens when the biggest crime and economic impacts are caused by illegal immigrants. PBS was running specials on the costs of illegals about a year ago. That stats are crazy and this comes from a very good news source compared to fox and cnn. I think I will go to Mexico, renounce my citizenship and then come back. Then, I will get to live here without working but have everything paid for. The big misconception is that all illegals are hard workers. If you read the stats, that isn't true. Most don't have any jobs and are getting aid. It's crazy that other people in this country make you feel that you can't speak out on this matter.

    This is a real problem that is leading this country to a major depression. Something needs to be done about it. The system needs to be changed to prevent illegals from receiving services or they need to be deported. Making them citizens will only qualify them for more services and more people draining the system. Then, we will be looking at a 60% tax rate.
    Seriously? Can you please provide sources for all the "stats" you quote.

    I'm not arguing that illegal immigration isn't an issue that needs to be addressed (I don't think it's "the real problem with the country"), but how exactly do you go about arresting illegals? Ask anyone who isn't white for their papers? Maybe we can just hire some old Stasi officers from WWII Germany to start this program. In NYC, if you're arrested and undocumented, you are immediately referred to ICE. Arrested...not convicted. You could be an 18 yr old kid whose family moved here when you were 3 and be wrongfully arrested and then deported. Sounds reasonable, right?

    We need immigration because our population growth is slowing. Without adding to our population, we won't be able to afford the Ponzi scheme known as Social Security. Deporting all illegals would cost much more than giving them resident status and getting them to pay taxes. Sensible immigration reform is needed, but don't look for it from the current cast of buffoons we have in Congress.

    And by the way, hundreds of thousands of illegals are deported every year - http://www.ice.gov/news/releases/111...shingtondc.htm

  2. #92
    This thread needs to end now... Are we really arguing immigration laws on a SURFING site? Hows it working out?

    bob- "I hate Obama"
    joe- "Obama is great"
    bob- "Great point Joe. You're right. I love Obama now!"

    Quote Originally Posted by zrich View Post
    Seriously? Can you please provide sources for all the "stats" you quote.

    I'm not arguing that illegal immigration isn't an issue that needs to be addressed (I don't think it's "the real problem with the country"), but how exactly do you go about arresting illegals? Ask anyone who isn't white for their papers? Maybe we can just hire some old Stasi officers from WWII Germany to start this program. In NYC, if you're arrested and undocumented, you are immediately referred to ICE. Arrested...not convicted. You could be an 18 yr old kid whose family moved here when you were 3 and be wrongfully arrested and then deported. Sounds reasonable, right?

    We need immigration because our population growth is slowing. Without adding to our population, we won't be able to afford the Ponzi scheme known as Social Security. Deporting all illegals would cost much more than giving them resident status and getting them to pay taxes. Sensible immigration reform is needed, but don't look for it from the current cast of buffoons we have in Congress.

    And by the way, hundreds of thousands of illegals are deported every year - http://www.ice.gov/news/releases/111...shingtondc.htm

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by nynj View Post
    This thread needs to end now... Are we really arguing immigration laws on a SURFING site? Hows it working out?

    bob- "I hate Obama"
    joe- "Obama is great"
    bob- "Great point Joe. You're right. I love Obama now!"
    About as well as surfing has worked out recently.

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by nynj View Post
    This thread needs to end now... Are we really arguing immigration laws on a SURFING site? Hows it working out?

    bob- "I hate Obama"
    joe- "Obama is great"
    bob- "Great point Joe. You're right. I love Obama now!"

    EXACTLY. there are plenty of good pages to argue politics. don't pollute this one with it.

  5. #95
    Touche....

    Quote Originally Posted by zrich View Post
    About as well as surfing has worked out recently.

  6. #96
    Total cost of illegal immigrants on the US economy (according to the restrictionist Federation for Immigration Reform) $114 billion per year
    Total cost of obesity on the US economy: (according to the US Center for Disease Control and Prevention) $147 billion a year.

    So, barrels4liam, are you even more pissed about fat people?

  7. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by zrich View Post
    Seriously? Can you please provide sources for all the "stats" you quote.

    I'm not arguing that illegal immigration isn't an issue that needs to be addressed (I don't think it's "the real problem with the country"), but how exactly do you go about arresting illegals? Ask anyone who isn't white for their papers? Maybe we can just hire some old Stasi officers from WWII Germany to start this program. In NYC, if you're arrested and undocumented, you are immediately referred to ICE. Arrested...not convicted. You could be an 18 yr old kid whose family moved here when you were 3 and be wrongfully arrested and then deported. Sounds reasonable, right?

    We need immigration because our population growth is slowing. Without adding to our population, we won't be able to afford the Ponzi scheme known as Social Security. Deporting all illegals would cost much more than giving them resident status and getting them to pay taxes. Sensible immigration reform is needed, but don't look for it from the current cast of buffoons we have in Congress.

    And by the way, hundreds of thousands of illegals are deported every year - http://www.ice.gov/news/releases/111...shingtondc.htm
    The south park episode was funny but in reality they are taking jobs. People were making a higher wage at skilled trade jobs. Companies hire illegals at a much lower rate. The people have a life based on their cost of living and a higher wage. They can't afford to take the lower paying job. So there are forced to go on employment or other social services (welfare). The illegal is working under the table but still able to get free housing, welfare, etc. That illegal is a huge tax burden and has made the skilled trademan a tax burden. You can probably search PBS for the show. There are also stats all over the internet and just a little common sense.

    The people who aren't against deporting illegals or not allowing them to have services paid by us are the ones who benefit from them (own company hiring them or there corporation is affected by an industry will make larger profits because of illegals).

  8. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by ragdolling View Post
    Total cost of illegal immigrants on the US economy (according to the restrictionist Federation for Immigration Reform) $114 billion per year
    Total cost of obesity on the US economy: (according to the US Center for Disease Control and Prevention) $147 billion a year.

    So, barrels4liam, are you even more pissed about fat people?
    LOL. Yes, the obesity cost is primarily for healthcare. I'm also annoyed with how fat people pay the same insurance costs as a healthy person. Premiums need to be increased for obese people, people who smoke. Why should a healthy person pay the same premium as someone with higher risks of diabetes, stroke, etc.

    The illegal figure is probably almost 5 times that though. They are only tracking illegals that they know about. We all know there are far more than that. Also, sponsors in the US that are harboring them are also adding to that figure.

  9. #99
    They are taking jobs, but in a lot of cases it's our own fault. They aren't taking jobs for $5 an hour anymore... Take electricians. Unin electricians on LI make mid $40's and hoiur + benefits + vacation. For a contractor to pay them he has to bill customers $95 an hour per man. Illegals and American non-union guys know this and work ask for $30 an hour , so contractors end up going non-union. They know what the union contractors have to bill at so they can charge a little less and make a lot more.
    The unions know this is happening , but they won't take a few dollars less even though it would mean a lot more work. They actually still want more money even though no contractor can compete.
    I

    Quote Originally Posted by barrels4liam View Post
    The south park episode was funny but in reality they are taking jobs. People were making a higher wage at skilled trade jobs. Companies hire illegals at a much lower rate. The people have a life based on their cost of living and a higher wage. They can't afford to take the lower paying job. So there are forced to go on employment or other social services (welfare). The illegal is working under the table but still able to get free housing, welfare, etc. That illegal is a huge tax burden and has made the skilled trademan a tax burden. You can probably search PBS for the show. There are also stats all over the internet and just a little common sense.

    The people who aren't against deporting illegals or not allowing them to have services paid by us are the ones who benefit from them (own company hiring them or there corporation is affected by an industry will make larger profits because of illegals).

  10. #100
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    The south park episode was funny but in reality they are taking jobs. People were making a higher wage at skilled trade jobs. Companies hire illegals at a much lower rate. The people have a life based on their cost of living and a higher wage. They can't afford to take the lower paying job. So there are forced to go on employment or other social services (welfare). The illegal is working under the table but still able to get free housing, welfare, etc. That illegal is a huge tax burden and has made the skilled trademan a tax burden. You can probably search PBS for the show. There are also stats all over the internet and just a little common sense.

    The people who aren't against deporting illegals or not allowing them to have services paid by us are the ones who benefit from them (own company hiring them or there corporation is affected by an industry will make larger profits because of illegals).
    I'm not disputing that illegals are an issue and that our immigration policy needs to be fixed. I am disputing what you tout as stats from a PBS show. How big of a problem is this really? I don't know, but there are millions of cases of people losing jobs every year in this country. Some are due to illegals, some are due to technological advancements, some are new products, some due to relocation of manufacturing, some due to other factors. Should we make technological advancement illegal because it costs people jobs and puts them on welfare?

    How much do you think it will cost to deport every illegal? We spent $18B last year to remove some 400K illegals - that works out to $45K/illegal deported. Estimates seem to range from 7-20M illegals. Extrapolate that $45K and you're looking at $315-900B. Personally, I just don't think that's economically feasible in the current economy. I don't agree with providing services people who exploit the system, but there are plenty of US citizens that fall into that category as well as illegal immigrants.