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  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by LBCrew View Post
    So by the same logic, we should ALL be sending our manufacturing businesses overseas... cause it's cheaper. If you think it's stupid to pay more for local, than you must think it's stupid to pay more for local labor, too. So let's just send EVERYTHING overseas... our money, our jobs, our resources, our production... our souls... 'cause it's cheaper. Screw the American business owner, and screw the American worker, too. As long as I save that 20 bucks!
    Im not the one building our infrastructure with Mexican/ Brazilian labor nor am I a business owner sending my manufacturing overseas. Point is, you all seem to think that shopping from China is a bad thing. Which is very hipocritical; considering your feeding me to the wolves for doing so, BUT then go ahead an support the same industry in a different method. So the local shop owner who has %90 china product minus surfboards is supporting our economy? AND the local board builder who uses leash plugs and fcs/ future plugs MADE IN CHINA is somehow better than me b/c I want a cheap leash/pad. Also who builds your boards with tools MADE IN CHINA!!! You sir, are also the scum which contributes to the sh*ttiness of our economy. Don't blame me....BLAME YOUR LOCAL BUSINESSES for supporting China manufaturing. I challenge you to find me 1 shop on the Jersey Shore that uses %100 local products and labor. This isn't the 1900s its the nature of the beast for Capitalism

  2. #32
    But that local shop owner:

    Employs local people
    Pays a local accountant/CPA
    Pays for local advertising
    Hires local service providers to improve or fix his shop as well as his home
    Pays local taxes that support roads, schools and other gov't services
    Pays for a babysitter when he & wifey go out to eat at a local restaurant
    Tips bartenders & waitstaff that recycle that money back into the local economy
    Pays the mechanic to work on his car
    May even organize a beach cleanup
    Pays rent to a landlord that spends that $$ at the country/yacht club that employs dozens of people
    Buys groceries from a store that employs many local people who repeat the same type of spending habits

    Its called the Local Multiplier Effect - around 50% of a dollar spent at a local business is re-spent in the local economy. Then those dollars are re-spent locally again, and again, and again..... (BTW a chain store only re-spends ~30% locally)

    Your way just ships US dollars to China so we can borrow it back and give it to some sand covered middle east nation. Yes, you have more $ in your pocket but you aren't creating the same economic impact that a business owner is. And, no profits = no business.

    It's a free country and to each his own but at least realize the big picture of what you are doing.

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
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    Monmouth County
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    52
    Quote Originally Posted by fupafest View Post
    Im not the one building our infrastructure with Mexican/ Brazilian labor nor am I a business owner sending my manufacturing overseas. Point is, you all seem to think that shopping from China is a bad thing. Which is very hipocritical; considering your feeding me to the wolves for doing so, BUT then go ahead an support the same industry in a different method. So the local shop owner who has %90 china product minus surfboards is supporting our economy? AND the local board builder who uses leash plugs and fcs/ future plugs MADE IN CHINA is somehow better than me b/c I want a cheap leash/pad. Also who builds your boards with tools MADE IN CHINA!!! You sir, are also the scum which contributes to the sh*ttiness of our economy. Don't blame me....BLAME YOUR LOCAL BUSINESSES for supporting China manufaturing. I challenge you to find me 1 shop on the Jersey Shore that uses %100 local products and labor. This isn't the 1900s its the nature of the beast for Capitalism
    You are not a scumbag for buying China made products.

    By shopping at that site you are cutting out the profits earned honestly by the hard working Americans who developed the products.

    That is the problem. When you buy a China made product from an American company the R&D staff, the marketing and sales staff, and the janitor all get paid. Cut them out and buy the products that they designed directly from China and you are cheating them of their "working man"'s pay.

    This is why you are a scumbag.


    PS. All three of my power planers that I use to shape my surfboards were MADE IN THE USA.

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    Science mother****er
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    Quote Originally Posted by goosemagoo View Post
    But that local shop owner:

    Employs local people
    Pays a local accountant/CPA
    Pays for local advertising
    Hires local service providers to improve or fix his shop as well as his home
    Pays local taxes that support roads, schools and other gov't services
    Pays for a babysitter when he & wifey go out to eat at a local restaurant
    Tips bartenders & waitstaff that recycle that money back into the local economy
    Pays the mechanic to work on his car
    May even organize a beach cleanup
    Pays rent to a landlord that spends that $$ at the country/yacht club that employs dozens of people
    Buys groceries from a store that employs many local people who repeat the same type of spending habits

    Its called the Local Multiplier Effect - around 50% of a dollar spent at a local business is re-spent in the local economy. Then those dollars are re-spent locally again, and again, and again..... (BTW a chain store only re-spends ~30% locally)

    Your way just ships US dollars to China so we can borrow it back and give it to some sand covered middle east nation. Yes, you have more $ in your pocket but you aren't creating the same economic impact that a business owner is. And, no profits = no business.

    It's a free country and to each his own but at least realize the big picture of what you are doing.
    While I agree with most of your points, I will say that a few of our local shops don't sell anything local. Sure, they employ a couple teenagers, but if that were my only option in the area I rather send money to China. Not defending the OP, but there are cases where the only local option is just as bad as paying directly to another country.

  5. #35
    Even if they are ONLY selling products from china my post is still valid. It's the circulating of money locally that benefits the whole local economy.

    Even with something like wetsuitwarehouse (I don't know where they're located) when you buy from them your money goes to work in their locality. The employees and owners don't buy from businesses near you so that money is gone from your local economy. Your money is no longer supporting local businesses because their employees aren't supporting your local bar, surf shop, car lot, etc. Every time a dollar is spent someone keeps a little bit of it. The longer that dollar circulates locally the greater the benefit.

    I think the horse is out of the barn as far as the US returning to being a manufacturing leader of the world. That's a shame but we have to make the best of what's been dealt to us.

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Monmouth Beach, NJ
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    2,461
    fupafest... if you go back and read my earlier post, the last three words matter most... "if you can." I believe we all should... must... do what we can, if we want our local economies, and nation's economy, to prosper. Buying something "cheap" comes with a cost... you don't get somethin' for nothin'. Cutting a corner (buying one-offs from China) costs somebody local their profit. All the profit goes to China. America and Americans get nothing from that transaction. Money gone... out of the economy. Do what you can... If you can't... well... that doesn't make you a scumbag. You're only a scumbag if you can, and still don't.

    And for the record, my tools are American made, and so are my blanks, cloth, and resin. And my fin boxes? Probox Hawaii. My fins? True Ames or Rainbow. ALL of them. (I lie... not all of them. Some Fiberglass Fin Co. and Probox, too)
    Last edited by LBCrew; Mar 5, 2013 at 08:06 PM.

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Central FL
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    4,242
    Quote Originally Posted by goosemagoo View Post
    Even if they are ONLY selling products from china my post is still valid. It's the circulating of money locally that benefits the whole local economy.

    Even with something like wetsuitwarehouse (I don't know where they're located) when you buy from them your money goes to work in their locality. The employees and owners don't buy from businesses near you so that money is gone from your local economy. Your money is no longer supporting local businesses because their employees aren't supporting your local bar, surf shop, car lot, etc. Every time a dollar is spent someone keeps a little bit of it. The longer that dollar circulates locally the greater the benefit.

    I think the horse is out of the barn as far as the US returning to being a manufacturing leader of the world. That's a shame but we have to make the best of what's been dealt to us.
    Solid couple posts, I agree with everything you said. People need to understand what they are doing to their own country by spending with companies outside of it. You don't have to necessarily buy from the shop right down the street to keep it local either, you can still buy online from companies right here in the good ole USA and get a good deal. I buy from WRV online, I'm not local to VB, but that money will be circulated around VB and to other areas of the US. The point is to keep it in the country at least.
    Last edited by DawnPatrolSUP; Mar 5, 2013 at 07:10 PM.

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
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    Hilton Head Island - OB, SD
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    I am on the fence with this one, but since our nation was built on Capitalism, I really don't feel too bad about "cutting out the middle man" in most scenarios. I guess my opinion on the "local shapers" etc is this: I think that maybe 5-10% of "local shapers" in our country actually do a quality enough job to justify their prices... For most modern surfers, cutouts and "China" boards are EXACTLY what the surfer really needs. They have been tested and ridden by thousands, both pro and novice and they are mass produced for that very reason... If you are a throw back guy, who wants a bad ass custom single fin or a fish... go for it... I go local with my shaper too. My shaper was one of the best in San Diego, but I still went off the rack 3 out of 4 boards unless he was floating me a board, which he did sometimes... But the simple fact is that I could walk into the Plus One warehouse (Local San Diego Company) who dont mass produce boards, but they produced 10's of thousands per year. Custom art... My Shaper actually did a lot of glass work for them... But their prices were cheaper than most local shapers because they made so many, and the boards were magic sticks... Nothing like walking through, feeling the rails and know what you are getting... Still today, you can get a ridiculous board, with custom art, out the door for $400... If you walk down to OB Surf Shop (My old Local Shop).... The same boards go for $580 off the rack... I mean, its hard for me to justify walking an extra 1/2 mile to "support the shop" when the mark up is obvious...

    But with that being said, it is what it is... I know we all love surfing and we treat it differently than we do when we grocery shop, or shop for cars, or electronics... I mean, most of us I am sure go with the best deal, for the best product. I never read into where my "Panasonic" TV was manufactured and what kind of working conditions they went through... I mean, I buy most boardies and stuff from ROSS, or TJMAX or whatever... they are like 1/3 of the price. it is what it is.

    We just treat surfing differently... And the sad truth to me is this: If you arent a well known shaper, dont get into that "TRADE"... Hobby? Yes.... Trade? No.... There is no money in it unless you are established.... I think we could ALL AGREE, that we would all quit our day jobs tomorrow and shape surfboards for a living if the money was good. I think we would all also agree that owning a surfshop is next on our list of things we would quit work to do everyday and love it if the money was good.... So, what is the answer? I dont know... But you cant justify giving people hard earned money just because they are in your community... Cause the bottom line is, maybe they shouldn't be... I am sure that some shops stay on the cutting edge of great products, that are made locally and support the economy, but the world in capitalist america doesnt work that way... You phone company outsources their call centers. So do your banks... So do your credit card companies.... I mean, half of our fruits and produce are outsourced... So thats life I would say....

    If the Mom and Pop shops go under, its because its just not a healthy business choice.... I wish it werent true, but unless a Ron Jon pops up in Hilton Head Island, I guarantee the reason we have no shops is because the shops dont make money on real surf products... It is what it is...

    Like I said, if it were that easy, we would all own surf shops and shaping shops...

  9. #39
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    Jun 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by zach619 View Post
    I am on the fence with this one, but since our nation was built on Capitalism, I really don't feel too bad about "cutting out the middle man" in most scenarios. I guess my opinion on the "local shapers" etc is this: I think that maybe 5-10% of "local shapers" in our country actually do a quality enough job to justify their prices... For most modern surfers, cutouts and "China" boards are EXACTLY what the surfer really needs. They have been tested and ridden by thousands, both pro and novice and they are mass produced for that very reason... If you are a throw back guy, who wants a bad ass custom single fin or a fish... go for it... I go local with my shaper too. My shaper was one of the best in San Diego, but I still went off the rack 3 out of 4 boards unless he was floating me a board, which he did sometimes... But the simple fact is that I could walk into the Plus One warehouse (Local San Diego Company) who dont mass produce boards, but they produced 10's of thousands per year. Custom art... My Shaper actually did a lot of glass work for them... But their prices were cheaper than most local shapers because they made so many, and the boards were magic sticks... Nothing like walking through, feeling the rails and know what you are getting... Still today, you can get a ridiculous board, with custom art, out the door for $400... If you walk down to OB Surf Shop (My old Local Shop).... The same boards go for $580 off the rack... I mean, its hard for me to justify walking an extra 1/2 mile to "support the shop" when the mark up is obvious...

    But with that being said, it is what it is... I know we all love surfing and we treat it differently than we do when we grocery shop, or shop for cars, or electronics... I mean, most of us I am sure go with the best deal, for the best product. I never read into where my "Panasonic" TV was manufactured and what kind of working conditions they went through... I mean, I buy most boardies and stuff from ROSS, or TJMAX or whatever... they are like 1/3 of the price. it is what it is.

    We just treat surfing differently... And the sad truth to me is this: If you arent a well known shaper, dont get into that "TRADE"... Hobby? Yes.... Trade? No.... There is no money in it unless you are established.... I think we could ALL AGREE, that we would all quit our day jobs tomorrow and shape surfboards for a living if the money was good. I think we would all also agree that owning a surfshop is next on our list of things we would quit work to do everyday and love it if the money was good.... So, what is the answer? I dont know... But you cant justify giving people hard earned money just because they are in your community... Cause the bottom line is, maybe they shouldn't be... I am sure that some shops stay on the cutting edge of great products, that are made locally and support the economy, but the world in capitalist america doesnt work that way... You phone company outsources their call centers. So do your banks... So do your credit card companies.... I mean, half of our fruits and produce are outsourced... So thats life I would say....

    If the Mom and Pop shops go under, its because its just not a healthy business choice.... I wish it werent true, but unless a Ron Jon pops up in Hilton Head Island, I guarantee the reason we have no shops is because the shops dont make money on real surf products... It is what it is...

    Like I said, if it were that easy, we would all own surf shops and shaping shops...
    You and I are in agreement. I feel that some businesses need to fail. Just because they are local does not mean they deserve my money. This is especially true for shops only selling crappy Chinese made popouts. They are not really benefitting the community I support. If that shop isn't supporting local industry by carrying local goods, then I have no desire to support them.

  10. #40
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    Sep 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by foamdust View Post
    That is the problem. When you buy a China made product from an American company the R&D staff, the marketing and sales staff, and the janitor all get paid. Cut them out and buy the products that they designed directly from China and you are cheating them of their "working man"'s pay.

    This is why you are a scumbag.
    Anyone who doesn't understand this inherently by the time they have enough money to make purchases like this on the internet probably will never get it. Regardless of where things are made, ripping people off is theft and just because it is not regulated as theft in the US doesn't make it any less of a crime. If someone designs it, makes it, markets it and sells it great!!! If they are fortunate enough to make your product and then steal your design or label they are crooks.

    But don't take it from me. Go ahead and give them your credit card information and see what happens. They're honest people just trying to save you a buck because they care about you!

    You might want to read all the reviews on Aliexpress before you buy anything there. If it looks to good to be true...........

    I'll be waiting for the next post...RIPPED OFF ON SURF PRODUCTS FROM CHINA!!!! There's a sucker born every minute.