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  1. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by MakeItStop View Post
    did you study natural history, or just going from your gut?
    of course they aren't AFRICAN cats in AMERICA, there are large cats (cougars, and no NOT your mom) in the Americas, ice age cats were larger too
    there were CLEARLY prehistoric megafauna here before humans migrated here, fossil evidence not good enough for you?
    do you know what the anthropocene era is?
    Cougars are not extinct. They hunt them out west. Do you really think the small population of people made prehistoric megafauna go extinct? Sounds like b.s..... "Four theories have been given for these extinctions: hunting by the spreading humans,[1] climatic change, spreading disease, and an impact from an asteroid or comet,[2] a combination of which is also possible."

    It was probably a natural extinction. Either way we don't even know for sure. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleistocene_megafauna

    Why would you want to bring back extremely dangerous predators that most likely went extinct naturally? We can't bring them back anyway. Jurassic park is a science fiction.

    THAT Being said, bringing african lions to the americas has nothing to do with prehistoric megafauna. That's like bringing in komodo dragons to the americas since dinosaurs used to roam. Like I said, the dumbest **** I've ever heard.

    Also, where are we getting the giant beavers that once roamed?(no I'm not talking about your mom)
    Last edited by shark-hunter; Nov 18, 2013 at 10:36 PM.

  2. #92
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    This thread is starting to rival the 'Hello!' thread for longevity.

    Read every post. There's some consistently intelligent stuff being posited, primarily from Seldom Seen. There's some other good points randomly made by a couple of others. And, naturally, the garbled versions of Loony Toons by, well, you know who you are. Round up the usual suspects.

    And now that I've said that, my merry band of wacky SI Forum trolls ought to be along at any moment now.

  3. Quote Originally Posted by yankee View Post
    This thread is starting to rival the 'Hello!' thread for longevity.

    Read every post. There's some consistently intelligent stuff being posited, primarily from Seldom Seen. There's some other good points randomly made by a couple of others. And, naturally, the garbled versions of Loony Toons by, well, you know who you are. Round up the usual suspects.

    And now that I've said that, my merry band of wacky SI Forum trolls ought to be along at any moment now.
    I concur, I usually don't post, but there were some awesome discussions to be had before the masters of delusion stepped in and started talking about africa and eachothers moms.

  4. #94
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    I know very well cougars aren't extinct, and you say the megafauna extinction was 'prob natural extinction' is not 100%. best data seems to show it was an anthropogenic act, or at least anthropogenic stress aided in the extinction. Even your links says as much.

    and this relates to that post in that since it is likely that humans did cause that die off, to bring a species of large cat back to the ecosystem isnt pure folly, from a technical ecological standpoint, so long as other 'system parts' are brought back too. To recreate the continent's ecosystem from 10K years ago is impossible. Agreed, however if you were going to try, you'd need big cats, from somewhere.

    it is folly in that this system would require a lot of housekeeping off the bat until it was sustaining, and even then it would need to be managed with lots of population data and keeping humans out of certain areas. doesnt seem feasible, but to say its hogwash is wrong

    and sorry about the mom jokes, I just cant help myself. its my way.

  5. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by MakeItStop View Post

    and this relates to that post in that since it is likely that humans did cause that die off, to bring a species of large cat back to the ecosystem isnt pure folly, from a technical ecological standpoint, so long as other 'system parts' are brought back too. To recreate the continent's ecosystem from 10K years ago is impossible. Agreed, however if you were going to try, you'd need big cats, from somewhere.

    it is folly in that this system would require a lot of housekeeping off the bat until it was sustaining, and even then it would need to be managed with lots of population data and keeping humans out of certain areas. doesnt seem feasible, but to say its hogwash is wrong
    You will never recreate an ecosystem that existed with extinct animals. Introducing non native species to an ecosystem is a ecological disaster and totally unnatural. There's really no debating this. You'd simply be creating a totally unnatural ecosystem created by man.(ie african lions running around new york) lmao And how are these big cats that are adapted to an African environment supposed to survive in the rocky mountains or cheetah's trying to survive in thick forests? Animals adapt to their environment. This is not their natural environment. Never mind the destruction to native animals anytime you introduce a foreign/invasive species.
    Last edited by shark-hunter; Nov 19, 2013 at 12:22 AM.

  6. #96
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    I am all too familiar with what invasive nonnatives do to a system not ready for them
    do you know what an ecological equivalent is?
    why would you compare habitats that aren't comparable?
    the savannah is comparable to the prairie or other grasslands in flyover country but you compare it to the jungle and NYC, that makes no sense. Big cats (bigger than puma-panther-mtn lions)roamed these American grasslands as little as 10K years ago

    I guess you missed the point of the link and why people are discussing this. Unless you have an inside track and are a population biologist or ecologist, I think you missed the point, but keep spouting off like you know.

    I guess my argument is this and then I will stfu, the 'ecosystem' that was in place is still partially there and some managing could see it become much different than we see it. Big cats adapting to hunting in vast grasslands (which comprise most of middle America) are a part of it. end trans
    Last edited by MakeItStop; Nov 19, 2013 at 03:42 AM.

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by yankee View Post
    This thread is starting to rival the 'Hello!' thread for longevity.

    Read every post. There's some consistently intelligent stuff being posited, primarily from Seldom Seen. There's some other good points randomly made by a couple of others. And, naturally, the garbled versions of Loony Toons by, well, you know who you are. Round up the usual suspects.

    And now that I've said that, my merry band of wacky SI Forum trolls ought to be along at any moment now.
    Thank you sir, appreciate that. Just a couple random thoughts...bees, deer, and cows cause more annual human fatalities than all of the aforementioned predators...cougars, another species that used to be continent wide that imo has no reason to be hunted as of now(I admittedly don't know the numbers, but nothing beyond 'management' of problem animals)...you can't make an omlette w/out breaking a few eggs, and if a few humans get harvested in the backcountry at the expense of a healthy ecosystem, I'm not gonna lose any sleep. Bottom line wherever you are, know what's there, know the risks, and proceed accordingly, if that's too much to handle, keep your ass home on the couch...and these guys that claim the wolves are putting that much of a burden on the elk/moose/deer populations, I tend to think it's exaggerated, and I also highly doubt that the majority of wolf tags went to guys that are truly depending on elk for survival...

    I found a 9" long turd in the woods once, thick as a hot dog, full of deer fur. Never saw coyote scat of that size, and a random cougar was hit in the highway in CT a little over a year ago, makes me wonder.

    The History/Discovey/NatGeo channels- (tin foil hat time) A while ago when I still had cable and watched tv, there were some great shows on these channels...how the earth was made, the universe, can't recall anymore by name, but great shows on natural history(for lack of a better all encompassing term). Shows that conveyed the ancient-ness and awesomeness of this planet we live on. Well, I was migrating w/ my pack last night, taking in the moon, and contemplating the regression of these channels, which for the most part, now are pure garbage w/ the occassional decent show(from what i can gather from my intermittent voyages into the great big festering neon distraction)...swamp loggers, this loggers, that loggers, yukon women, pawn stars(?????), buying alaska, etc, etc...which now portay the natural world as merely something to exploit and to be feared(pretty puritanical)...are they preparing the populace for the final assault on the natural world??? I know, I'm delusional, but remember, nature bats last.

  8. #98
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    Thought I'd share this update

    So, as you might have guessed, I've been debating with the wolf hunters on one of their fb pages, the Sportmen Against Wolves page. Nothing hostile, just factual debate. Apparently there must be some validity to what I'm saying, b/c i just checked it, and come to find out, they deleted all my comments and blocked me from the page(for the record the admin and I had a civil discourse and i was invited to voice the oppostion, he actually seemed refreshed that it wasn't just a flame fest). I guess in all reality he just can't handle the facts...the guy even agreed that many of the page participants were morons..

    I called him out on using a source from the Earth First journal(regarding a wolf in Ky), and i simply noted that if the same source was used against their stance, they'd write it off b/c it was EF...

  9. #99
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    wolf hunting and shooting one roaming in in your yard are two different things.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by aka pumpmaster View Post
    wolf hunting and shooting one roaming in in your yard are two different things.
    Agreed...my beef wasn't the content of the article, but the fact that it was an EF publication, which if used against them would be discredited on that fact alone...so I pointed out the hypocrisy and got blocked. Again, I was very civil with these ppl just trying to discuss the issue.