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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZombieSurfer View Post
    I completely hear everything you're saying brother. That's why I mentioned the willingness to change happens when the pain becomes too much to bear. For some it happens and others continue to live in the insanity of addiction. I have my choice back now and for that I'm grateful. From what you've mentioned of your buddy I find a lot of parallels, I stopped surfing too and sold all my ****. My family didn't have the money to send me to rehab the few times I reached out to them but luckily NJ has the FMLA and my health care covered a two week stay in detox. What suggestions I can give you from my own experience, most of the times trying to help a using addict is just making it worse. The mother of your buddy should just cut in off completely. By giving him money for clothes or food or sending him on rehab vacations when he doens't want to get clean just perpetuates the cycle. If hes able to get help from others and allows him to keep using what incentive does he have to stop? If his mother and loved ones just simply said, I'm sorry I'm not going to help you anymore you need to figure it out, he would have to. That's what sucks about being powerless over others, we pray they want help and get better and not end up dead. But they have their choices and we have ours, can't control what they do. She can send him to rehab a million times and unless he wants to stay clean and shows that desire, each trip will fail.

    As for your wife's relative, I relate to your sentiment about the drug maintenance programs. Being on long term suboxone or methadone programs is like staying on the hamster wheel and never getting off, just substituting one substance and relying on another. The basis of those drugs is to ween down off to the point of nothing. But a lot of doctors and healthcare programs keep patients on them to earn money (one of the reasons I have doctor trust issues), and other cases people are afraid to stop. If I have any suggestion to you about your wife's relative, try taking her to a Narcotics Anonymous meeting. It's any mind or mood altering chemicals and if she gets to a couple meetings and some recovering addicts talk with her, she's got a pretty good shot. I know you mentioned early about 12 step programs being all about god and what not. But it is not a religious program by any means, it's a spiritual program. You'll hear the term higher power a lot in meetings and literature, but it can be whatever you what it to be and no one will put you down for your own concept. I heard it the other week, one old timing was comparing how organized religions bicker all the time about minute differences where in our meetings we don't care what you believe in as long as it works for you. Just want people to keep coming back and not use.

    I noticed you said it just doesn't make sense to you either, consider yourself grateful for that. I understand what it's like to know only how to get through a day with a substance, and when that's how you're living it's all you know and anything else just seems foreign. Ignorance truly is bliss my friend. If you've got anymore questions feel free to PM me
    Good stuff man. Thanks. And believe me when I tell you. I am no saint. I probably still drink more often than I should, and for a large chunk of years, I probably consumbed more pot than Jimi Hendrix.... But luckily, the hard stuff has never tickled my fancy. Never really felt like even giving it a try. I think my friend's mom growing up really changed my views. Once I was old enough to know WHAT she was doing, it kind of made the dangers of that stuff a reality....

    I always though Methadone was meant to "ween" off of. This person tells me otherwise, and claims that her doctor supports this... Even for travelling, she is always afraid that she won't have a methadone pill if she leaves the state. It was a big deal when we were in CA. I actually had to drive around looking for a place to get her one.... I told her, why don't you just take 3/4 of a pill every day for a few weeks before you travel. Maybe you can save up enough to get you through... Or with that rationale, I have also said, start small... Start taking 3/4 of a pill each day for a month. Then the next month, take half, and so on and so on....

    I think more than anything, she really isn't willing to put up that fight yet and get through it. It gives her a lot of power in a lot of situations. I.E. She never has to come down and see us. She never has to go do family stuff. She always has that trump card. That out. So in a lot of ways, I don't really buy it, and because of her friends and the area she lives in, I know she has access to the bad pills all day every day. And I know that supposedly Methadone counteracts oxy, so I guess it doesn't really work when you take them, but I have always wondered, maybe she uses sometimes, and when she can't find it, or can't afford it, that Methadone gets her through. Only she knows this. I just know a lot of people very close to her still use. And she has to see them on a somewhat regular basis. She doesn't look like a Zombie like she did at one point...

    But like you said. I guess the day will come when she will want to fight it harder. I guess today is not the day. In her mind, she still "kinda" gets high every day of the methadone, and the doctor tells her its okay, so who knows. I know that people say Methadone is no big deal, but it has to alter your mind and body in some way to control the fiending. Again, I am in the dark about it. In a nutshell, if she wants to kick it once and for all, I am sure there is a way. Her family members and my wife are all convinced that nothing can be done, and this is simply how she is going to have to live her life. Sounds fishy to me.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by zach619 View Post
    Good stuff man. Thanks. And believe me when I tell you. I am no saint. I probably still drink more often than I should, and for a large chunk of years, I probably consumbed more pot than Jimi Hendrix.... But luckily, the hard stuff has never tickled my fancy. Never really felt like even giving it a try. I think my friend's mom growing up really changed my views. Once I was old enough to know WHAT she was doing, it kind of made the dangers of that stuff a reality....

    I always though Methadone was meant to "ween" off of. This person tells me otherwise, and claims that her doctor supports this... Even for travelling, she is always afraid that she won't have a methadone pill if she leaves the state. It was a big deal when we were in CA. I actually had to drive around looking for a place to get her one.... I told her, why don't you just take 3/4 of a pill every day for a few weeks before you travel. Maybe you can save up enough to get you through... Or with that rationale, I have also said, start small... Start taking 3/4 of a pill each day for a month. Then the next month, take half, and so on and so on....

    I think more than anything, she really isn't willing to put up that fight yet and get through it. It gives her a lot of power in a lot of situations. I.E. She never has to come down and see us. She never has to go do family stuff. She always has that trump card. That out. So in a lot of ways, I don't really buy it, and because of her friends and the area she lives in, I know she has access to the bad pills all day every day. And I know that supposedly Methadone counteracts oxy, so I guess it doesn't really work when you take them, but I have always wondered, maybe she uses sometimes, and when she can't find it, or can't afford it, that Methadone gets her through. Only she knows this. I just know a lot of people very close to her still use. And she has to see them on a somewhat regular basis. She doesn't look like a Zombie like she did at one point...

    But like you said. I guess the day will come when she will want to fight it harder. I guess today is not the day. In her mind, she still "kinda" gets high every day of the methadone, and the doctor tells her its okay, so who knows. I know that people say Methadone is no big deal, but it has to alter your mind and body in some way to control the fiending. Again, I am in the dark about it. In a nutshell, if she wants to kick it once and for all, I am sure there is a way. Her family members and my wife are all convinced that nothing can be done, and this is simply how she is going to have to live her life. Sounds fishy to me.

    Sounds like me how I rationed my scripts each time lol. I wouldn't travel either unless I had enough junk to last me through the whole trip, and even then I'd go through it much quicker than I planned. And you just further proved my point about doctors. There are some out there who truly do care about their patients well being, and others not so much... Whom are really just concerned with how many patients they can get in and out and what they'll get paid from the insurance companies. Believe it or not, not many doctors really even know how 12 step programs work even though a lot of them may recommend them. Instead of going to see the same doctor she should seek out an addiction counselor or an IOP program (intensive outpatient). They'll say hit up 12 step meetings as well. I'll pray for her though man, cus the only way it's going to happen is if she wants it do. I have the utmost faith she can change into a completely different person. I mean just look at Steve-O and how he turned his sh!t around, if he can do it anyone can lol.

    A big misconception too when it comes to most addicts, people always say they have a drug problem. I never had a drug problem, I had a ME problem and my solution to that problem was to use drugs. My solution to the problem now is not to use chemicals, but to stay plugged in and connect with other people who are staying clean as well and work on myself and defects, all one day at a time. Oh and surfing as much as fcking possible too haha

  3. #23
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    One guy in my fam od from that **** left behind a wife and 2 kids. Sad. on the other hand - one of my friends went down the rabbit hole with all that **** we let him drown in it and quit talking to him for years. He used to surf, snowboard, camp, fish very talented board rider too. We stayed away for ten yrs and let him waste away. So about a yr ago he calls me and my friend and is like I miss the old days and I gotta kick the dope I need your help. We took turns not letting him leave when he was going through withdraw, we had to physically kick his ass a few times in the beginning and not let him go find the ****. Hes clean a yr and 2 months and never happier. We are all closer now than ever too. Dont totally write anyone off you never know.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJ glide View Post
    One guy in my fam od from that **** left behind a wife and 2 kids. Sad. on the other hand - one of my friends went down the rabbit hole with all that **** we let him drown in it and quit talking to him for years. He used to surf, snowboard, camp, fish very talented board rider too. We stayed away for ten yrs and let him waste away. So about a yr ago he calls me and my friend and is like I miss the old days and I gotta kick the dope I need your help. We took turns not letting him leave when he was going through withdraw, we had to physically kick his ass a few times in the beginning and not let him go find the ****. Hes clean a yr and 2 months and never happier. We are all closer now than ever too. Dont totally write anyone off you never know.
    That's beyond awesome to hear man, like you said never write anyone off. The future is unwritten. Glad you get to share the stoke with your buddy again

  5. #25
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    Sometimes people just wake up and realize wtf am i doing?

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by surfin paulie View Post
    That's awesome, dude. I guess the key is THEY gotta call US. Maybe one day my friend will call me. Until then, I can't do squat. You're exactly right about there's always a chance. Too bad we can't see the future sometimes...
    I hope you get that call. If you do a word from experience dont let the withdraw part those unfortunate peeps go through scare you. Its like going through the movie the exorcist, not even joking...

  7. #27
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    May 2013
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    I always felt like some others have stated here. No sympathy for addicts. Well that changed recently. Have a good friend who got into pills. Really was the type of person every one wanted to be around. Liked by everyone. We would do some "fun" drugs together. Drop acid every now and then, a little coke here. But it was always about moderation. Somewhere along the line moderation slowly went out the window one he started with the pills. I never liked them or that feeling so it's not something I fully understand. At first I was in denial myself. Couldn't believe he was going down that road and turned a blind eye out made excuses for him. If I could go back I would of tried to be a better frien. Anyway, to make a long story short by the time stuff started going missing and his debt started adding up and the lies got more and more ridiculous and I finally accepted what was going on I tried to help along with everyone else who's close to him, he was already to deep into it. Believes his own lies sort of stuff.

    When I tried to talk some sense into him I was confident things would change. I was still thinking of him as the person he was. I was heart broken when I realized he's not that person. Denies his problem even when hard evidence is put in front of him. Refuses help. Refuses to admit his problem or his wrong doings. I now realize there's not a thing I can do for him. I WONT be an enabler. And I'm there for him when wants to fix this but until he makes that decision on his own all I can do is cut off ties. It hurts but it's for his own good.

    I always thought only bad people turned into addicts. After seeing first hand what it does to a good person....I'm speechless. It's a very sad, useless feeling. I'm not saying addicts are innocent, I'm just saying it goes allot deeper then people who haven't seen it first hand would think.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by BassMon View Post
    I always felt like some others have stated here. No sympathy for addicts. Well that changed recently. Have a good friend who got into pills. Really was the type of person every one wanted to be around. Liked by everyone. We would do some "fun" drugs together. Drop acid every now and then, a little coke here. But it was always about moderation. Somewhere along the line moderation slowly went out the window one he started with the pills. I never liked them or that feeling so it's not something I fully understand. At first I was in denial myself. Couldn't believe he was going down that road and turned a blind eye out made excuses for him. If I could go back I would of tried to be a better frien. Anyway, to make a long story short by the time stuff started going missing and his debt started adding up and the lies got more and more ridiculous and I finally accepted what was going on I tried to help along with everyone else who's close to him, he was already to deep into it. Believes his own lies sort of stuff.

    When I tried to talk some sense into him I was confident things would change. I was still thinking of him as the person he was. I was heart broken when I realized he's not that person. Denies his problem even when hard evidence is put in front of him. Refuses help. Refuses to admit his problem or his wrong doings. I now realize there's not a thing I can do for him. I WONT be an enabler. And I'm there for him when wants to fix this but until he makes that decision on his own all I can do is cut off ties. It hurts but it's for his own good.

    I always thought only bad people turned into addicts. After seeing first hand what it does to a good person....I'm speechless. It's a very sad, useless feeling. I'm not saying addicts are innocent, I'm just saying it goes allot deeper then people who haven't seen it first hand would think.
    This is the story I've heard so many times. A lot of non-addicted folk, or "normies" or don't understand the disease write off addicts and wastes of life, junkies, bums, etc. But the thing about addiction, the disease don't care who you are, what color your skin, how much or how little you have, religion, gender, sexual orientation, etc. It doesn't discriminate. You could be the stereotypical addict who's homeless begging for change to buy that next bag, to the little old lady who gets scripts from her doctor, to millionare ceo's, to touring rockstars. Lest we forget Andy Iron's was an addict too.

    You mentioned enabling too which I have first hand experience on from both sides of the coin. When I was using my family helping me with buying things for me since I was constantly broke and couldn't afford anything since my money always went towards my bad habits. Same rings true with my dad now, my mom pays for everything for him and he has a nice place to stay right now because she allows it. They think they're helping but they're really not. Love with detachment, sometimes the only way to be there for someone is to not be there for them.

    Also, this is why I dig the song "Otherside" by Macklemore a lot, it paints the picture very well. Here's a quote from that song:

    Friendship cease, no peace in the mind
    Stealin' and takin' anything to fix the pieces inside
    Broken, hopeless, headed nowhere
    Only motivation for what the dealer's supplying
    That rush, that drug, that dope
    Those pills, that crumb, that roach
    Thinkin' I would never do that, not that drug
    And growing up nobody ever does
    Until you're stuck, lookin' in the mirror like I can't believe what I've become
    Swore I was gonna be someone
    And growing up everyone always does
    We sell our dreams and our potential
    To escape through that buzz
    Just keep me up, keep me up
    Hollywood here we come

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by BassMon View Post
    I always felt like some others have stated here. No sympathy for addicts. Well that changed recently. Have a good friend who got into pills. Really was the type of person every one wanted to be around. Liked by everyone. We would do some "fun" drugs together. Drop acid every now and then, a little coke here. But it was always about moderation. Somewhere along the line moderation slowly went out the window one he started with the pills. I never liked them or that feeling so it's not something I fully understand. At first I was in denial myself. Couldn't believe he was going down that road and turned a blind eye out made excuses for him. If I could go back I would of tried to be a better frien. Anyway, to make a long story short by the time stuff started going missing and his debt started adding up and the lies got more and more ridiculous and I finally accepted what was going on I tried to help along with everyone else who's close to him, he was already to deep into it. Believes his own lies sort of stuff.

    When I tried to talk some sense into him I was confident things would change. I was still thinking of him as the person he was. I was heart broken when I realized he's not that person. Denies his problem even when hard evidence is put in front of him. Refuses help. Refuses to admit his problem or his wrong doings. I now realize there's not a thing I can do for him. I WONT be an enabler. And I'm there for him when wants to fix this but until he makes that decision on his own all I can do is cut off ties. It hurts but it's for his own good.

    I always thought only bad people turned into addicts. After seeing first hand what it does to a good person....I'm speechless. It's a very sad, useless feeling. I'm not saying addicts are innocent, I'm just saying it goes allot deeper then people who haven't seen it first hand would think.
    I've watched people I cared for die or become completely lost to the sh**. I also have seen other folks I care for kick it, and God bless them for doing so. I still have no sympathy for addicts though. I am not going to try and save someone from their own demise. Will I take a phone call from a friend in-need going through some sh**? Yes, but they have their own demons to face and are going to continue doing what they do until they WANT to change. Grow-up and face the sobriety...LOL. It ain't easy, right?

  10. #30
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    Yeah, some day I will talk to the guy, if he is still alive. I spent the better part of two years trying to help him. In kind of a strange "bro deal", instead of me terminating my lease when I left CA, he convinced me that he was clean and all this. He was living with his mom. So I let him stay in my apartment for the duration of my lease. At any time, I could have cancelled it at any time, but he kept convincing me. Man, I just started working, I will pay the rent and all that. I helped him with the rent the first two months... Never should have. Long story short, I shelled out over $4,000 for this bastard, all so he could squat in my place and do drugs. It was a terrible call on my part, I just still had faith in him, you know? For the final month, the rental agency would call me, saying that they just let themselves in, to make sure he was alive. Because they would see him stumbling around the neighborhood. They reported back to me that he was living in Squalor, empty bottles everywhere. Med bottles everywhere. They stepped over him on the floor, he never even woke up... At any rate, I told them to call the cops and remove him. They gave him a 24 hour notice and finally kicked him out....

    So, for the past year or so, he reaches out to my friends, asking for my number, saying how he misses me and my wife and our daughter. They ask if they can give him my number. I say, does he sound sober? They say, no, not really. So I say no. Don't give it to him.....

    I am over the money. I paid it all already anyway, it was just the principle of it all. Even if the guy did contact me, got my address and mailed me $10, it would be the step in the right direction, cause a Junkie isn't going to put $10 in the mail for sh** much less 4K.....

    I just finally took the advice from a close friend, much older than me. She said Zach, we all know and love this guy, but you aren't helping him. You are enabling him. Every time you try and help him, he just gets further behind. You need to tell him you are done with him until he is sober, and really be done. So I told him. And I meant it. From the garbage my boys tell me he posts up on facebook, he sounds like a Junkie. He posted a couple weeks ago that he got robbed at Gun point at a gas station in Orange County.... I am like, sure buddy. You were just minding your business and two thugs rob you in the middle of Laguna Beach. Real story. White boy drives to bad part of town to buy drugs, instead of getting drugs, white boy gets jacked....

    Anyway, enough about him. Just another story of a guy getting burned by a Junkie friend.