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  1. #311
    I don't think Tebow is going to play tight end. He may be 2" taller, but he's much slower and can't catch.

    I do think Peyton is going to get there this year.

    Quote Originally Posted by dlrouen View Post
    Don't worry about your Pats, Spicoli. Tom Brady will have yet another great season, while your offensive line will remain as one of the best in the league. Don't be surprised when your running game finishes in the top five this season, especially with the addition of Blount. Shane Vereen, Stevan Ridley, Brandon Bolden & LeGarrette Blount? Sounds pretty stacked to me. I know exactly how you feel about losing a great receiver in Wes - Anquan Boldin - but Danny Amendola will do just fine. He's bigger, stronger and faster than Wes. Danny also has mad ups for those hard-to-reach passes in the fourth quarter. You know what I'm talking about. Plus, the Pats scooped up some solid WRs who should be fun to watch. Your system makes it look so easy, even for rookies/new additions. The dismemberment of your tight end duo was definitely a major blow, but Gronk should be back soon. Tebow will make a damn good effort to fill in for Hernandez. Remember, Tim Tebow is 2" taller than Hernandez and he also isn't behind bars right now. Your defense is always a mystery. Only time will tell.

    The fate of the Broncos is in Peyton's hands. He's been amazing since 98', but you just have to wonder when he's finally going to start showing signs of age. This may be the year. Peyton is surrounded by talent, on both sides, and he has his eyes on the prize. Montee Ball is a stud. Thanks for Elvis!

  2. #312
    Quote Originally Posted by nynj View Post
    I don't think Tebow is going to play tight end. He may be 2" taller, but he's much slower and can't catch.
    Tebow's not that much slower. He runs a 4.71 while Hernandez runs a 4.64 and Gronk runs a 4.65. Keep in mind that the Patriots are one of the more passer-friendly tight end teams in the league right now. There aren't too many teams that utilize their tight ends quite like BB does. Imagine if the Saints had another passer-friendly TE opposite of Jimmy Graham. My point is that Tebow's stature and skill set is relatively similar to the rest of the tight ends in the league. It might be hard to imagine since the Patriots use their tight ends differently than other teams. With a more dynamic backfield, I expect Tebow to line up as more of a blocking TE, while Gronk will remain an aerial target. Don't be surprised if Tebow lines up in the backfield either. We all know how BB likes to throw a curveball once in a while. Plus, if there is a team that can work Tebow into their gameplan, it's the New England Patriots. Look what they did with Danny Woodhead, among other notables. It's going to be interesting to see how Welker performs outside of BB's system. Deion Branch didn't do so well...

  3. #313
    Glad to see you guys know your football and recognize the dynasty of America's team. The tight end position is such a dynamic role in the Pats system. Think Keith Byars in the early 90s. Man ran the ball like a starting halfback, laid blocks like he was on goal line offense, ran routes and caught passes nearly as well as a wideout, and in 1990 threw 4 passes and completed all 4 for TDs. Byars was with Philly for most of his career and was a 3rd down/goal line double tight with the Pats, but was the precursor to what the Pats use a TE for today. Tebow can do all that and walk the dog. He can flat out play football. He's been waiting his whole career to find the system that suits him best and NE is it.

    As for combine stats, the 40 is a standard unit of measure but has far less critical value than the flying 30. For the TE position, the 5-10-5 and Illinois agility test are far more indicative of a player's relative fitness for his role. The Pats make their TEs even more of a skill position and Tebow is the best canvas they've ever had for creativity and innovation with that position. Kind of like a monster back on defense.

    Tight ends' and receivers' technique is judged from the top of the route down (in reverse order). No one on the field aside from Brady will have as much intelligence as Tebow when he's running any route or laying a block down. His technique will be textbook because he's had a mental picture his whole career of what his receivers need to show him for a target or to gain separation for their defender. The intangibles of knowledge and critical thinking have not yet gained attention by reporters covering his acquisition. Imagine your tight end AND your quarterback calling audibles at the line.

    Tebow? Check. Let's talk Brady now. 2010-2012 were 3 of his 4 best seasons ever. Let's not forget his game has progressed in all ways each season. He was but a spring chicken in the 2001 season when he garnered his first ring. Back then, he fumbled nearly once a game. Last year? 2. He's even rushed for 7 TDs in the last two seasons combined. 109 TDs in the last three seasons to only 24 picks, many of which were tipped by his receivers when not thrown off the mark. This man is in the heart of his prime and has 6-8 seasons left before he leaves his cleats at the 50. Best ever, man.
    Last edited by EmassSpicoli; Jul 6, 2013 at 09:35 PM.

  4. #314
    Quote Originally Posted by dlrouen View Post
    Hernandez runs a 4.64
    Correct. Hernandez RAN a 4.64. You can't run with shackles on your ankles. As always though, we on to the next one.
    Last edited by EmassSpicoli; Jul 6, 2013 at 09:51 PM.

  5. #315
    Quote Originally Posted by dlrouen View Post
    It's going to be interesting to see how Welker performs outside of BB's system.
    Wes was primarily a kick/punt returner for the Dolphins until his arrival in NE and really started to come into his own as a receiver the last year in Miami. Granted, any player will do best in a system that suits them well but it's any coach's job to create a system that features the best in all your player resources.

    Again, we only look ahead, but I love Wes. The man has even kicked a field goal and an extra point in his career.

  6. #316
    Brady is great... But like I said, he's way past his prime. Football is not like other sports. You can have your best season and fall off a year or two later... I think he'll be fine, but he's done in a few years.

    Is Brady the best ever? I'm not sure about that. I think he's great and definitely in the discussion. But I don't think he's number 1... I think it's Peyton. Then Brady, Elway, Marino in any order.

    Remember when Brady blew out his knee Matt effin Cassel stepped in and looked like a super star. The Pats didn't miss a beat... Peyton went down and Indy became the worst team in football overnight. So how much is Brady and how much of it is BB's system?

    Quote Originally Posted by EmassSpicoli View Post
    Glad to see you guys know your football and recognize the dynasty of America's team. The tight end position is such a dynamic role in the Pats system. Think Keith Byars in the early 90s. Man ran the ball like a starting halfback, laid blocks like he was on goal line offense, ran routes and caught passes nearly as well as a wideout, and in 1990 threw 4 passes and completed all 4 for TDs. Byars was with Philly for most of his career and was a 3rd down/goal line double tight with the Pats, but was the precursor to what the Pats use a TE for today. Tebow can do all that and walk the dog. He can flat out play football. He's been waiting his whole career to find the system that suits him best and NE is it.

    As for combine stats, the 40 is a standard unit of measure but has far less critical value than the flying 30. For the TE position, the 5-10-5 and Illinois agility test are far more indicative of a player's relative fitness for his role. The Pats make their TEs even more of a skill position and Tebow is the best canvas they've ever had for creativity and innovation with that position. Kind of like a monster back on defense.

    Tight ends' and receivers' technique is judged from the top of the route down (in reverse order). No one on the field aside from Brady will have as much intelligence as Tebow when he's running any route or laying a block down. His technique will be textbook because he's had a mental picture his whole career of what his receivers need to show him for a target or to gain separation for their defender. The intangibles of knowledge and critical thinking have not yet gained attention by reporters covering his acquisition. Imagine your tight end AND your quarterback calling audibles at the line.

    Tebow? Check. Let's talk Brady now. 2010-2012 were 3 of his 4 best seasons ever. Let's not forget his game has progressed in all ways each season. He was but a spring chicken in the 2001 season when he garnered his first ring. Back then, he fumbled nearly once a game. Last year? 2. He's even rushed for 7 TDs in the last two seasons combined. 109 TDs in the last three seasons to only 24 picks, many of which were tipped by his receivers when not thrown off the mark. This man is in the heart of his prime and has 6-8 seasons left before he leaves his cleats at the 50. Best ever, man.

  7. #317
    He may run a similar 40, but he's not nearly as quick. Just using the eye test he is much slower.... Don't get me wrong, the guy is no doubt a winner. But he said he does not want to be anything but a QB. I'm sure BB will get him to do what he wants, but I don't think he'll be anything close to Hernandez. And let's see if Gronk can stay on the field. I have a felling his career will be cut way short do to injury

    Quote Originally Posted by dlrouen View Post
    Tebow's not that much slower. He runs a 4.71 while Hernandez runs a 4.64 and Gronk runs a 4.65. Keep in mind that the Patriots are one of the more passer-friendly tight end teams in the league right now. There aren't too many teams that utilize their tight ends quite like BB does. Imagine if the Saints had another passer-friendly TE opposite of Jimmy Graham. My point is that Tebow's stature and skill set is relatively similar to the rest of the tight ends in the league. It might be hard to imagine since the Patriots use their tight ends differently than other teams. With a more dynamic backfield, I expect Tebow to line up as more of a blocking TE, while Gronk will remain an aerial target. Don't be surprised if Tebow lines up in the backfield either. We all know how BB likes to throw a curveball once in a while. Plus, if there is a team that can work Tebow into their gameplan, it's the New England Patriots. Look what they did with Danny Woodhead, among other notables. It's going to be interesting to see how Welker performs outside of BB's system. Deion Branch didn't do so well...

  8. #318
    Quote Originally Posted by nynj View Post
    He may run a similar 40, but he's not nearly as quick. Just using the eye test he is much slower.... Don't get me wrong, the guy is no doubt a winner. But he said he does not want to be anything but a QB. I'm sure BB will get him to do what he wants, but I don't think he'll be anything close to Hernandez. And let's see if Gronk can stay on the field. I have a felling his career will be cut way short do to injury
    The eye test like for glaucoma?
    He had 660 rushing yards on 5.4 years per carry two seasons ago. On those carries, he's getting chased down by OLBs and DBs who are among the fastest and quickest players on the field. The guy makes plays. Hands down. You make plays, you win games. He wants to play in the NFL a lot more than he wants his NFL career to end so he will do what's needed to stay active. Take a poll of recent and current Pats players and see if they prefer being part of that franchise. People are willing to make concessions to be part of something that's greater than themselves when it's such an exceptional culture.

    Hernandez missed making some serious plays down the stretch last season. That and look where he is now. You think the sum total of Tebow is going to be better or worse than Hernadez's contributions at this point all things considered?

    Even if you take the near-Bosworth streak out of Gronk, he's still one of those guys always on the DL. He won't be the same player when he comes back, but even a notch or two down from before is still dominant. But look at all the choices he's made. Is he putting the team first? You don't belong in that culture if you don't. That's why they're so rare compared to other pro franchises today and it's why they either win it all or come damn close.

    We both do agree that Tebow is a winner and a guy who's definitely adding to the overall value and success.

  9. #319
    You say that he wants to play in the NFL more than he wants his career to end. But Tim Tebow says he's a QB and that's the only position he wants to play.
    Glaucoma. That's funny... But he's not as fast as those dudes. We agree he's a winner and a stand up dude, but I
    you also have to give his defense credit in Denver. He made a couple of big plays at the end of games, but he also won a lot of games without scoring in the 1st 55 minutes. That's defense winning those games.

    I hope the guy does well, but I don't think he'll succeed as a TE or a RB... That's why he got $0 guaranteed.


    Quote Originally Posted by EmassSpicoli View Post
    The eye test like for glaucoma?
    He had 660 rushing yards on 5.4 years per carry two seasons ago. On those carries, he's getting chased down by OLBs and DBs who are among the fastest and quickest players on the field. The guy makes plays. Hands down. You make plays, you win games. He wants to play in the NFL a lot more than he wants his NFL career to end so he will do what's needed to stay active. Take a poll of recent and current Pats players and see if they prefer being part of that franchise. People are willing to make concessions to be part of something that's greater than themselves when it's such an exceptional culture.

    Hernandez missed making some serious plays down the stretch last season. That and look where he is now. You think the sum total of Tebow is going to be better or worse than Hernadez's contributions at this point all things considered?

    Even if you take the near-Bosworth streak out of Gronk, he's still one of those guys always on the DL. He won't be the same player when he comes back, but even a notch or two down from before is still dominant. But look at all the choices he's made. Is he putting the team first? You don't belong in that culture if you don't. That's why they're so rare compared to other pro franchises today and it's why they either win it all or come damn close.

    We both do agree that Tebow is a winner and a guy who's definitely adding to the overall value and success.

  10. #320
    Quote Originally Posted by nynj View Post
    Brady is great... But like I said, he's way past his prime. Football is not like other sports. You can have your best season and fall off a year or two later... I think he'll be fine, but he's done in a few years.

    Is Brady the best ever? I'm not sure about that. I think he's great and definitely in the discussion. But I don't think he's number 1... I think it's Peyton. Then Brady, Elway, Marino in any order.

    Remember when Brady blew out his knee Matt effin Cassel stepped in and looked like a super star. The Pats didn't miss a beat... Peyton went down and Indy became the worst team in football overnight. So how much is Brady and how much of it is BB's system?
    Way past his prime? He's had 3 of his best 4 years the last 3 seasons and done new things the last 2 that he's never done. That's past your prime? First, you need to see signs of decline to fall out of your prime. We can't even be sure he's peaked. Of course you can fall off in a year or two. Is this guy just any player? He's at worst a player who's defined this generation in the league. At best, the greatest of all time.

    Did you put Marino in the same sentence as Super Bowl winners? He peaked two years into pro football and had a long drop off. Three, he's got way too many picks. Brady is throwing one-third or less than Marino did. Going the better part of seasons sometimes without a pick. Marino - Above average career and typical season passer rating, not even close to Manning. Marino (who I really liked despite being on a rival) has slightly better stats but is in the same category of Kosar and Kelly (who went to 4 SBs). Couldn't rush for his life. Elway finally won it all after living at the SB and was always a big game and crunch time player. His stats are average though. He just had longevity and overall success and was a master of the 2-minute drill. Elway and Kelly are ahead of Marino just on SB experience.

    I respect Peyton. Always have. Even though the Colts were a huge Pats rival. McGinest stopping them 4 times in a row from the goal line. Awesome. Peyton's regular season stats are amazing. Best ever. But let's look at playoffs?! Manning was one and done (no wins) in the playoffs in 2 of his 4 MVP seasons.

    Brady: 17W-7L, 6 GW drives, 3W-2L in Super Bowls, 3 Super Bowl MVPs, 42D, 22INTs
    Manning: 9W-11L, 1 GW drive, 1W-1L in Super Bowls, 1 Super Bowl MVP, 32TDs, 21INTs

    They both have very similar yardage (B-5,949, M-5,679) and completion percentage (B-62.3, M-63.2).

    Brady is two slight letdowns away from 5 SB titles. Manning lost his other decisively. Add to that 2 out of the last 3 years the Pats fell short in playoff upsets after dominating the AFC all season. They have been atop the food chain throughout Brady's career. Sure, Cassell stepped in and had a good season when Brady was hurt. If it were Brady's stats that Cassell put up that year, it would be Brady's 8th best season. Cassell's season was good, not great. They didn't make the playoffs. It was one of only two good seasons that Cassell ever had and he's now a terrible QB. But he did come up huge for the Pats in Brady's absence. They didn't make the playoffs though, so how's that not missing a beat?

    In the seasons each player was hurt, the Patriots defense ranked 8th in points allowed while the Colts ranked 28th. Let's consider that just a bit. Not to mention, the three QBs that stepped in for Manning were awful that season and the offense was in the bottom 5 in the league I believe in points and yardage. We really can't use their absence as an indicator of what they mean to their teams when the remaining players that actually played those seasons fared so differently between the two.

    Brady is 9-4 vs Manning head-to-head. Brady is 136-39 (78%) in the regular season to Manning's 154-70 (69%). Brady 17-7 (71%) in playoffs to Manning's 9-11 (45%).

    How much other compelling info do you want?
    Last edited by EmassSpicoli; Jul 7, 2013 at 08:43 AM.