Epoxy vs. Polyester

[mtnsurf]

i had the nose snap on my epoxy board on sunday...i wiped out and fell on my board and the nose snapped after it hit my arm, so i really question whether epoxy is any better than polyester....

[clarkharris]

I went through 2 Walden Magic 3phase Epoxy boards this year.... The first one buckled in 3 foot choppy conditions on a bottom turn. That board was replaced for free by Walden since they agreed it was a manufacturer defect. The second just met its fate on Monday when I was paddling out....a wave that really didnt seem to heavy came in and hit the back third of the board and just destroyed it... Dont get me wrong the board was a TON of fun but for the money and amount of time I had it... I think there has gotta be better out there.

[Mike]

Epoxy's are no more better for the environment that a polyester board. they still use basically the same foam blanks that fiberglass boards use, but instead are wrapped in an Epoxy skin.

if you really want to 'go green' buy an Aviso, it is the strongest, most eco-friendly board on the market.

look at the top 45 on the dream tour, all (except Taj on his firewire.) everyone rides polyester.

i'm seeing a trend here.

Epoxy boards are made with polystyrene foam and polyester boards are made with polyurethane foam..two different types of foam and polyurethane is much worse for the environment...that's why Clark Foam was shut down.

As far as the top 45...i know the short epoxy boards are much less responsive...I trying to get a sense of epoxy longboards.

[...LostInFlorida]

i had the nose snap on my epoxy board on sunday...i wiped out and fell on my board and the nose snapped after it hit my arm, so i really question whether epoxy is any better than polyester....

it's not. get a polyester.

[YankeeSpy]

There seems to be some confusion/misconceptions about poly and epoxy. I hope this will clear some of them up-

For the sake of this argument I will only consider two types of boards- PU/PE and epoxy/EPS.

A PU/PE board uses a PolyUrethane blank with fiberglass cloth and PolyEster resin. An epoxy/EPS board uses an Expanded PolyStyrene blank with fiberglass cloth and epoxy resin. Many people refer to the PU/PE boards simply as 'fiberglass' but this is a misnomer because BOTH boards use fiberglass.

If the same quality and weave fiberglass cloth is used epoxy IS pound for pound stronger then polyester. By stronger, i mean it is more resistant to impact and compressive forces. Because it is stronger, less mass of epoxy resin is needed to produce the equal strength of polyester resin resulting in a lighter board with the same strength. (Different fiberglass weaves, s cloth vs e cloth for example, also affect the strength of the board but for the sake of the argument I will keep it simple and assume they both use the same cloth.)

Now, while they are more resistant to snapping and dinging, they are not unbreakable. They will also delaminate just like a PU/PE board under extreme temperature changes (like your car on a hot day).

Another important thing to consider is the fact that EPS sucks up water if get a bad ding. If you ding your board durring a session and finish out the day surfing the board will be much heavier then it was when your started. If you simply slap a quick epoxy patch job over the ding you will trap the water, and the weight, in the board.

If, like most surfers, you do your own minor home repairs keep in mind that polyester resin will desolve EPS foam. So before you try to fix your board at home, make sure you know what its made of and have the right materials for the job.

If 'Going Green" is your thing, then epoxy/EPS is your better choice. You know those small, white bead that you find in potting soil? Those are beads of EPS. EPS can also be ground down and reproduced, but a good blank uses virgin EPS. Though substituting MDI for TDI has reduced the amount of carcinogens and VOC emissions in the production of PU foam, it is still not as 'green' as EPS. Furthermore, epoxy resin also produces less VOCs then polyester. With that being said, epoxy/eps is only less bad then pu/pe. Neither is exactly environmentally friendly.

As far as looks are concerned, polyester is much prettier then epoxy. It is difficult to get a nice high gloss finish on epoxy and resin swirls and tints dont come out as nice.

A quick note on surftec, gsi, resin 8 et al. These are all mass factory produced boards that use epoxy. Not all epoxy boards are massed produced. Many backyard and local shapers use epoxy. On a similar note, pu/pe boards can be massed produced as well. Im not even gunna touch whether these mass produced boards are 'good' or 'bad'.

So... if epoxy/eps is so great then why dont the pros all use em? Great question, somewhat complicated answer. First off, the pu/pe boards the pros use are not the same ones you buy. They have a very light glassing schedule which produces a light board with superior flex characteristics. Because they are so light and flexible they are also much more delicate and break easier. This isnt a problem for a pro because he travels with an entire quiver of replacement boards. The average surfer, unfortunately, cannot afford a new board every month. Also, epoxy is more expensive. At the rate a pro snaps a board it wouldnt be cost effective to use epoxy.

If youve got any more questions send me a PM. Another great resource is swaylocks.com. Its a forum where shapers discuss construction, materials, performance, and pretty much anything related to surfing.

Most importantly- keep the stoke up.

[Xtreme*Liquidshredda]

There seems to be some confusion/misconceptions about poly and epoxy. I hope this will clear some of them up-

For the sake of this argument I will only consider two types of boards- PU/PE and epoxy/EPS.

A PU/PE board uses a PolyUrethane blank with fiberglass cloth and PolyEster resin. An epoxy/EPS board uses an Expanded PolyStyrene blank with fiberglass cloth and epoxy resin. Many people refer to the PU/PE boards simply as 'fiberglass' but this is a misnomer because BOTH boards use fiberglass.

If the same quality and weave fiberglass cloth is used epoxy IS pound for pound stronger then polyester. By stronger, i mean it is more resistant to impact and compressive forces. Because it is stronger, less mass of epoxy resin is needed to produce the equal strength of polyester resin resulting in a lighter board with the same strength. (Different fiberglass weaves, s cloth vs e cloth for example, also affect the strength of the board but for the sake of the argument I will keep it simple and assume they both use the same cloth.)

Now, while they are more resistant to snapping and dinging, they are not unbreakable. They will also delaminate just like a PU/PE board under extreme temperature changes (like your car on a hot day).

Another important thing to consider is the fact that EPS sucks up water if get a bad ding. If you ding your board durring a session and finish out the day surfing the board will be much heavier then it was when your started. If you simply slap a quick epoxy patch job over the ding you will trap the water, and the weight, in the board.

If, like most surfers, you do your own minor home repairs keep in mind that polyester resin will desolve EPS foam. So before you try to fix your board at home, make sure you know what its made of and have the right materials for the job.

If 'Going Green" is your thing, then epoxy/EPS is your better choice. You know those small, white bead that you find in potting soil? Those are beads of EPS. EPS can also be ground down and reproduced, but a good blank uses virgin EPS. Though substituting MDI for TDI has reduced the amount of carcinogens and VOC emissions in the production of PU foam, it is still not as 'green' as EPS. Furthermore, epoxy resin also produces less VOCs then polyester. With that being said, epoxy/eps is only less bad then pu/pe. Neither is exactly environmentally friendly.

As far as looks are concerned, polyester is much prettier then epoxy. It is difficult to get a nice high gloss finish on epoxy and resin swirls and tints dont come out as nice.

A quick note on surftec, gsi, resin 8 et al. These are all mass factory produced boards that use epoxy. Not all epoxy boards are massed produced. Many backyard and local shapers use epoxy. On a similar note, pu/pe boards can be massed produced as well. Im not even gunna touch whether these mass produced boards are 'good' or 'bad'.

So... if epoxy/eps is so great then why dont the pros all use em? Great question, somewhat complicated answer. First off, the pu/pe boards the pros use are not the same ones you buy. They have a very light glassing schedule which produces a light board with superior flex characteristics. Because they are so light and flexible they are also much more delicate and break easier. This isnt a problem for a pro because he travels with an entire quiver of replacement boards. The average surfer, unfortunately, cannot afford a new board every month. Also, epoxy is more expensive. At the rate a pro snaps a board it wouldnt be cost effective to use epoxy.

If youve got any more questions send me a PM. Another great resource is swaylocks.com. Its a forum where shapers discuss construction, materials, performance, and pretty much anything related to surfing.

Most importantly- keep the stoke up.

dat was real man

[CharlieInOC]

Well stated, you might also mention that another epoxy option is the XTR type. Primary difference is that the XTR is a close cell foam that will not absorb water if dinged. After all that has been said, my preference is still PU because of cost, and ride especially in larger surf. The ultra light boards just seem to corky when moving fast. They may not be green but I still love them.

[...LostInFlorida]

Well Said Yankee.... thanks for clearing that up...

on that note, i have to go up to the shop and pick up a 5'10" polyester that i just had shaped.

[YankeeSpy]

CharlieinOC- You are absolutely correct, there are several different kinds of blanks and methods in board building. For the sake of the argument i decided to keep it simple and only talk about PU/PE and Epoxy/EPS boards.

Extruded Polystyrene is marketed under the name XTR. It is essentially the same as those big sheets of blue or pink foam that construction workers put on the outside of buildings. I have never worked with it myself, but i hear its difficult to shape. Also, when you ding an XTR board you destroy the internal closed cell structure of the foam releasing air from tiny cells inside the board. This makes the board more prone to delam. Sometimes holes are punched in the glass along the stringer and rails to allow for the gasses to escape. As Charlie mentioned, XTR does not absorb water.

If you want to get really into it we can start to talk about compsands...

..LostinFlorida-
If pu/pe is what your comfortable with go for it. As far as bang for your buck, they are your best option. My post wasnt intended to convince the world to buy epoxy boards. I just want people to understand the differences between the two so they can make an informed decision when they go to the surfshop. Lets be honest, most of the surfshop's staff dont know very much about surfboards.

[...LostInFlorida]

..LostinFlorida-
If pu/pe is what your comfortable with go for it. As far as bang for your buck, they are your best option. My post wasnt intended to convince the world to buy epoxy boards. I just want people to understand the differences between the two so they can make an informed decision when they go to the surfshop. Lets be honest, most of the surfshops staff dont know very surfboards.

ooh, no, i wasn't being sarcastic at all, i really was going up to the shop i work at to go pick up a board that i had shaped...
and you've got that right also, i'd say a good 75% of the "surf shops" i've been to, are more or less tourist traps... legit surf shops are hard to come by these days, most people are in it to make a quick buck on the latest trend, and really have no idea what they are doing.