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  1. #101
    wow dude way to examine both candidates in a fair and open minded way. you can find equally as much **** on john mccain if you wanted to... personal opinions are bound to change over time as people become more informed and inspired.... its not flip-flopping, its acquiring knowledge. everyone has beliefs that change over time, ive redifined my values as i have gained a better understanding of my personal convictions and hopefully you have also. you give insight to baracks early life and inspiration when he was young and say nothing about the man he has become. i get the feeling that you are basically saying that people should stick to their original convictions even if their is a logical reason to change, which by the why is the reason were still in iraq and economy in the ****ter, because we have a president who is unwilling to reflect on a situation and reshape his ideas to accomandate new needs. the truth is people need to be as informed as possible. we have people comparing obama to marx becames he wants to "spread the wealth around" which is a phrase they probably heard in the news and have absolutely no idea what socialism really is. db2k5 and others who think obama is this socialist leader why dont you try reading up on socialist doctrines like the communist manifesto or something. check the 10 planks and tell me if obama is a truely a socialist. and i know communism is the same as socialism but communism is a form of socialism and the communist manifest was also written by karl marx. anyway this really wasnt supposed to turn into a obama lovefest i only wanted to try and give a little bit of truth to some of the claims but honestly what i really wanted to say is that all voters need carefully align themselves with the candidate that truely represents their opions which every party they happen to be in and inorder to do this it would be helpful to get a real nonbasis breakdown of the candidates. check out this website for some real facts, no opinions, no preferences, just a quick break down of the the canidates stances on the issues. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/629/629/7436221.stm .....this website will take about 5 minutes to read its real short and compares in a couple of sentences the two canidates stances on some key issues like iraq, the economy, taxes, health insurance, education, etc.... voting is a personal responibility that way way way way too many people take forgrated by just listening to public babble instead of actually doing some real research ive heard so many ignorant opinions on both sides its retarted.

  2. #102
    SeasideSwell Guest

    Not gonna lie

    Obama, is a socialist... and it wont be too long before he takes away our guns, and our free speech... I'm scared... and i wanna surf

  3. this just in.... Obama has an aunt living in boston illegally..... if the liberals/press would have researched this guys background 1/10 the amount they did on "joe The Plumber" he would not be the nominee and probably would be sitting in Guantanamo with the rest of his cronies...

    ks

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by wizes7 View Post
    check out this website for some real facts, no opinions, no preferences, just a quick break down of the the canidates stances on the issues. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/629/629/7436221.stm .....
    Thanks. That WAS a concise summary. Off topic here, ironic that you have to rely on foreign news source to a simple issue summary that you arent completely skeptical about. Fox News, CNN, etc. come so much baggage.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrobe057 View Post
    Where did you get your idea that socialism won't work? You read the "Communist Manifesto" and know well about what Marx said about advanced capitalism. I hope you don't think that Russia or China are worthy examples to what Marx said that socialism would be. For one capitalism had to progress until it imploded and this can't happen in a feudal or agrarian country like Russia or China were at the time of their adoption of "socialism, and Marx also would have disdained their dictatorships and totalitarianism.

    McCain likes the bailout too, is he a Marxist? That is redistribution of wealth only it will be going to the banks. That is like socialism for rich people. The "Communist Manifesto" is about 30 pages out of thousands that Marx has written. Respectively, read a little more.
    Socialism is a traditionalism phase into communism. So, China and Russia were very worth examples.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Db2k5 View Post
    That being said, this is how it affects me. I will be graduating with a degree in Architectural Engineering in the spring. I am working on my AKBD (associate kitchen and bath designer) as well. I work for a high end custom Millwork company as a designer. Most of our clients are in the wheelhouse Obama is targeting to tax the crap out of. Those clients not coming in and spending money, equals no job for me. The construction industry is already hurting terribly, these new taxes on businesses and high end clients is going to put the industry into a bigger recession.
    i can understand how economically, you personally would go to McCain, since your job caters to the upper class. The upper class, however, as a major minority population, does not consume most consumer products. So, most are not dependent in this way.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Db2k5 View Post
    Socialism is a traditionalism phase into communism. So, China and Russia were very worth examples.
    Your right about the first part, but the authoritarian governments of those countries do not follow with the true nature of a transformation into communism. The government would be formed by the lower class not by military, or single authoritarian rulers. Like i explained like six pages or so ago, communism comes about when the working class realizes it's control over capitalist markets, through it's role as the production of goods. When the working class rises to rebel against the powers of the bourgeoisie, the majority of the population will take control over the means of production along with the government institutions that backed the upper class. This creates a small strong centralized government of proletariat workers who evenly distribute the yields of production. Eventually the need for government becomes arbitrary and ownership of property is autonomous. This is the eventual form of government we would maintain until the end of time. Had this taken place in any former socialist countries, you would have seen a swift decrease in poverty, but instead you saw the socialist governments of eastern Europe collapse.

  8. #108
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    What a shame. . .

    What a shame it is to hear that the people who really know how to run this country are all too busy surfing.

  9. #109
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    Being a history major I have always had to debate whether or not the electoral college was a good thing. During this election I really understand why our founding fathers thought we were to stupid to do it alone. I go to a school that has mostly a minority population, and the most common answer i get when i ask them why they are voting for Obama i get "because he is black and we need a change". As for the black people that try and say they like his ideas, I brought up all of McCains views and acted like they were Obamas, and they didn't even know. That is sad that ignorant people like that can even vote. Before a black candidate was running these people didn't even know what a Democrat was, oh wait, they still don't.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by aczaplicki View Post
    Being a history major I have always had to debate whether or not the electoral college was a good thing. During this election I really understand why our founding fathers thought we were to stupid to do it alone. I go to a school that has mostly a minority population, and the most common answer i get when i ask them why they are voting for Obama i get "because he is black and we need a change". As for the black people that try and say they like his ideas, I brought up all of McCains views and acted like they were Obamas, and they didn't even know. That is sad that ignorant people like that can even vote. Before a black candidate was running these people didn't even know what a Democrat was, oh wait, they still don't.
    It is a surprise to you that elections are popularity contests? Some popularity is based on the real issues, other popularity is based personality and superficiality. People want to vote for people that they can relate to.

    Some people will vote for Obama just because he is black. Others will not vote for Obama, just because his is black. This is not a surprise.