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Thread: Beach Pumping

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zippy View Post
    Hey those are my Sandy Hook pics ! LBNJ Local, remember some of those breaks going right into the seawall in Seabright? Remember the Ship Ahoy Jetty? Great fishing although I never looked there on a swell. There were a ton of great spots with no parking so you had to park and walk to get to them. Lots of great spots with no beach, no beach goers and no crowds. I had a lot of people yell at me over the years because I parked in front of their house.
    Zippy,

    Those were the days! I was a member at Tradewinds Beach Club from when I was a year old till they tore it down.. Right in front of their nightclub was one of the best breaks I've ever surfed in NJ and thry ruined it by pumping sand. The name for the spot was "Little Hawaii" or "Little H." it was the breeding grounds for alot of surfers in our area that are now known to shred with the best of them. I can remember trying to sabatoge the Army Corps equipment on the beach when I was a "young buck." Obviously, it didn't work to well....

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by DKMBPIT View Post
    Ship Ahoy jetty = Logs! What a great wave that was when the sand was right. That whole stretch of beach from Sandy Hook - Brothers would fire pretty often. I started surfing in 1988, at anchorage in SB and on the regular til they did the sand project in 96, I can remember some spots waking up during the pumping...Little Hawaii, sickest right dredgers, Brothers... great times!
    I was waiting for someone to mention Little H and Anchorage! Thats great! You and I prob know each other...

  3. #43
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    Usually surf Strathmere and Sea Isle. Strathmere was done before SI and it's crap now. Surfed SI before they finished pumping. Gonna go this weekend and see how it is. Im sure they will all have slanty beachs (just like LBI) and break right on the beach in the future. Also kills a lot of bottom dwelling sea life. What a shame.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by mitchell View Post
    A split hull dredge can get into shallow enough water to dump its load straight into the near shore and form a sand bar that would quickly form bars that would break at most tides with a bit of swell. Pumping out of the hopper dredges could be also be done in shallow enough water to accomplish that.

    technical difficulties arent the reason they dont do it.

    The engineers i've talked to that are involved in these projects completely recognize the benefits of creating near shore sand bars which would both protect the dry beach during storms, and reduce the shorepound that swimmers, lifeguards, and surfers (in that order of priority, by the way) have come to hate.

    But they dont design these projects that way and the reason they dont do it is simple political fear that they will be accused of spending money on something you cant "see". People already accuse the projects of being a waste of money because the sand just washes away. Imagine how much grief they would get if they didnt even put the sand on the beach in the first plase...no matter how much sense it makes. Local politicians and chambers of commerce want to see a HUGE WIDE DRY BEACH for the millions of dollars they spend. Thousands of tourists fat butts on sand is the reason you they spend the millions of dollars pumping sand up on huge beaches rather than using a design that benefits swimmers, surfers and other users.
    I agree that there are things could be implemented to make a beachfill more 'user-friendly', for a lack of a better term: adjust the elevation of the beach so the upper, landward section of beach is higher and taper the elevation down so the seaward section of the beach edge is slightly lower; maybe construct the shoreline to have undulations (exaggerated cusps), especially adjacent to jetties/groins/etc.; maybe have this lower elevation berm be the most seaward point in the undulation and keep the full elevation at the most landward section of the undulation (cusp), but I think that that maybe these seaward exaggerations may work best close to structures like jetties/groins to prolong their life/design. Or maybe pump only the area within a beachfill project that is the most eroded to a full or beyond template and then pump the updrift areas to a less than full template. Whatever the design, offset shoreline positions may work best and let mother nature reshape it; it just needs to be incorporated so shore protection is not jeopardized. And if you could utilize a hopper dredge, you could drop or rainbow the material to the section adjacent to where the bar should be. Also, maybe some sort of reef structure can provide the recreational benefit without compromising the shore protection benefit.

    But I respectfully disagree with you that the technical aspect isn't a determining factor in this game; it all comes down to how the material falls out below the area where it can not be mechanically reshaped and the cost to do the modifications, if any can be done, in the surf zone and beyond. A percentage of beachfill projects are not and cannot be built with hoppers dredges but are done with fixed plant hydraulic dredges because of production limitations, accessibility, and safety factors. Plain and simple...a dredge that can pump the beach continually costs a lot less than a dredge that has to go back and forth with each load of sand, thus creating a 'break in the action' (ie, a break in productivity) which translates to dollars lost by the contractor and ultimately increased cost by the paying party(s) to make up for the loss...ie, increased unit prices and mobility costs because up the traveling back and forth to the sand source, paying for down time and so on.

    Hopper dredges are most commonly used when the sand source is too far offshore where it is physically impossible or completely inefficient to pump the long distance to the project site, and in narrow inlets for channel deepening/maintenance project where navigation needs to be maintained (there have been instances where this material is disposed of in nearshore, shallower water sites). Fixed plant hydraulic dredges are most commonly utilized within larger, close-proximity, shoaly inlet complexes (like Hereford Inlet, Corsons Inlet, Great Egg Inlet, Absecon Inlet, and so on) and occasionally at close offshore sand sources like some nearshore lumps (no pun intended). Yes, the hoppers have the capability to split the hull and drop sand in shallower waters or rainbow sand from a 'jet' on the ship’s bow to the shallower waters, but if hopper is not what they are using for the project, then that option is lost or becomes extremely expensive.. Also, 99% of the time, both styles of dredge are pumping via pipeline onto the beach or into the swash and not in deeper water…

    You better believe that dollars and cents is the biggest driving force in all aspects of the beachfill; you said it here: Imagine how much grief they would get if they didnt even put the sand on the beach in the first place. I don't know about your shore towns, but many shore towns in New Jersey are driven by tourism and tourism alone. And I am sure that there is some influence as to who gets what sand when, but we need to realize that if it wasn't for tourism or some other coastal-based feature, most of us wouldn't be living at or near the shore. And tourism isn't only where you put your fat butts on sand, but it is related to the boardwalk, the businesses, and the rental homes and condos (that we unwisely built too close to the water to begin with) and the infrastructure that supports it all (roads and utilities, etc.)....and many of the full time residents that live at the shore somehow benefit, in one way or another, off of the beach and the tourism or some other facet of the coast. So it makes sense to protect a valuable aspect of our economy.

    One thing to remember, is that the Federal projects are designed with a benefit to cost ratio, and economic analysis and storm damage modeling are incorporated together for the areas susceptible to wave-run up and flood water inundation….several designs are created and the one that provides the most cost effective method for a myriad of ‘storm’ scenarios is usually utilized. Unfortunately, for all or most federal civil works projects, recreation is only allowed to account for about 10% of the benefit to cost equation….which makes it tougher to get a sandbar or a pointbreak or a reef incorporated into these projects unless they are proven to provide or add to the shore protection value. So yes, the value is recognized by the experts but can’t be utilized because of federal legislation.

    Like I said, I agree that the projects maybe possible to engineer in a different fashion, outside of the box that could work better but I also agree that the money spent to provide this protection costs us a lot less then you taking a town like Ocean City, NJ(just an example), and retreating to the mainland [after a or to avoid a strong storm(s)] with all these businesses and homes and infrastructure in tow, like many believe to be the way to go -or- having the state and FEMA and insurance companies (because we know how rich they both are) completely bailing them all out to rebuild again. As much as many of you/us say, ‘Screw them, let them was away’, how many surfers/bodyboarders are in a trade or business that thrives at and close to or because of the coast? And are we in a dire situation, that the shoreline is going to collapse into the sea..no because we have been fairly proactive....but we also have not been slammed in a while. Many of us were young or not born at all, the last time we had a real storm...although some probably remember many of them... And so many shoobies or bennies or newbies have never lived at the coast through a good coastal storm and don't really respect the mightiness of the sea....

    BTW, the sand is not lost; it’s just in another part of the system.. Ocean City’s ‘lost’ sand is in the inlet and down between 18th St. and somewhere around the 40’s…Avalon’s ‘lost’ fill is between 35th St. and somewhere around the 70’s…Atlantic City’s ‘lost’ north end sand is in the inlet and in southern A.C. and Ventnor’s ‘lost’ sand is spread throughout Margate and Longport…North Wildwood’s ‘lost’ sand is in Wildwood/Wildwood Crest and in on the inlet beaches. You get my drift (again, no pun intended)…

    Sorry for the ramble but had to get it off my chest when I had some free time....

  5. #45
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    That was a very complicated, yet spot on explaination of the issues at hand. Couldn't have said it better myself...

    OC MD was my local beach growing up, and if it wasn't for the baordwalk, and the hotels and the money they spend on dredging the sand, there would be no Ocean City... We would all have had to drive from Baltimore to Ocean City everytime there was a swell. It is the same concecpt everywhere from Jacksonvill Florida to Atlantic City NJ....

    Atlantic City is the first spot, north of Florida that has a really booming economy. Yes, it is very tourist based, but the beaches of Atlantic City are an after thought. its the gambling, the entertainment etc. that is the attraction.

    So, my point is, unless you work in the hospitality industry, you are going to have a seriously tough time making and living and beaing able to live ANYwhere near the beach...

    I live in San Diego, CA and a thinking of moving back east. I manage, arguably the nicest fine dining restaurant south of Los Angeles. We make a killing there...

    And every bit of research I do on the eastern seaboard leads me back to this.... THere is no established, non-tousist based cities anywhere along the coast. I mean, Wilmington NC is the CLOSEST place I can find where there is even a job available that is even in the same ballpark as the one I have now...

    So, what he said was dead on. Everyone here obviously lives pretty close to the beach, and if it weren't for all the tourism and as$es on the beach, there would be no schools. No malls. No homes, no communities. And the ones that have been developed from Northern Florida all the way to NJ are all, 100% tourist bases beach towns...

    So, I think it is quite a strech for any of us to think that financially, or politically this sand bar, beach replenishment is ever going to stop...

    I feel you guys that are saying that its tougher on the swimmers etc... but lets all be serious, there are like .004% of the beach population who are out in the water doing any kind of serious swimming, surfing or anything....

    Its all people who want to walk out into waste deep water and play with their kids... If there is more than 2 feet of swell, most people don't want anything to do with the water...

    But, being from OC MD, I really hope things get better for everybody, but in this day in age, we should be glad there aren't oil fields being drilled 100 yards off shore... Money rules the world. Always has always will, and those beach homes aren't getting any cheaper!!!!!

  6. #46
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    Yeah...sorry for the complicated post but I was replying to a complicated post.. Shoulda broke it up into several posts reply to each facet...

  7. #47
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    wow lumpy, good stuff. very informative.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by mOtion732 View Post
    wow lumpy, good stuff. very informative.
    No prob. All in a days work...literally..