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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by ECsponger View Post
    Whatever you want to call it, HUMAN IMPACT from such things as burning fossil fuels and other forms of improper waste management lead to accelerated, and unnatural fluctuations in temperatures. This means it can get warmer than normal in the summer and winter, and can get colder than normal in the summer and winter. It doesn't mean the whole Earth gets warmer and hotter.

    If you think this is just a political scheme then you're just as big of a fool (read as 'tool') as the FOX News watchers who listen to that garbage. I've been studying all of this on my own for the last several years while most of you are just finishing up high school. I believe I have a much more educated opinion than let's say.. NOOBS that come on here and try to spread their weak parental-guided opinion on this forum.

    Go pick some trash off your beach - remember it could disappear in your lifetime, so enjoy it while you can.
    LOL. Just like they said there would be palm trees in the north east in the year 2000. lol. Please talk to scientists and read some published journals on the matter. Read publications by scientists, not politicians. Just a hunch, but the scientists know more on the subject. By the way, I hope you don't believe polar bears are in trouble and you understand that the politicans including Al Gore have admitted that was a lie. I wonder what they will use next to convince the masses.

    BTW I'm out of college with a PhD and working in a marine biology field. I don't have anything to gain and my job doesn't pay very much. I just love the ocean, planet, and the science behind it. I'm also not saying that humans don't pollute the environnment, they do! They just don't cause temperature change. Let's worry about real pollution and solving that problem with new techonology. I just don't believe in having an environmental gestapo coming into our homes.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by barrels4liam View Post
    LOL. Just like they said there would be palm trees in the north east in the year 2000. lol. Please talk to scientists and read some published journals on the matter. Read publications by scientists, not politicians. Just a hunch, but the scientists know more on the subject. By the way, I hope you don't believe polar bears are in trouble and you understand that the politicans including Al Gore have admitted that was a lie. I wonder what they will use next to convince the masses.

    BTW I'm out of college with a PhD and working in a marine biology field. I don't have anything to gain and my job doesn't pay very much. I just love the ocean, planet, and the science behind it. I'm also not saying that humans don't pollute the environnment, they do! They just don't cause temperature change. Let's worry about real pollution and solving that problem with new techonology. I just don't believe in having an environmental gestapo coming into our homes.
    OK I can agree with that and sorry for the outburst. Not a lot of us had the option to become a scientist, so I would consider myself a 'backyard scientist' - meaning that everything that I have learned I have formulated for myself. I do disagree with bringing it into our homes, saying we are the cause. But we are the dominating creatures on Earth, and (unfortunately) we are the only ones who have control over our livable planet's future.

    I am also a lover of the natural world that surrounds me, and I hate to see it change from human neglect and ignorance. BUT you have to admit, that human impact on the Earth is now at a breaking point, and I believe within our lifetime, something ill will be on our doorsteps that we will have to deal with because of decades of overgrowth, development and depletion of natural resources causing inner turmoil within the normal workings of our planet. I don't want to see that happen during our lifetime, and I don't want our children to have to deal with the consequences. I also agree that a lot of the factors can be rebutted with new forms of technology and science. That's if the politicians let us have them. Remember the electric car???

    We are stewards of our Earth and we must treat it with respect.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by ECsponger View Post
    Remember the electric car???
    What about the zero energy car? Wasn't the inventor rumored to be contract killed by oil executives?

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by ECsponger View Post
    OK I can agree with that and sorry for the outburst. Not a lot of us had the option to become a scientist, so I would consider myself a 'backyard scientist' - meaning that everything that I have learned I have formulated for myself. I do disagree with bringing it into our homes, saying we are the cause. But we are the dominating creatures on Earth, and (unfortunately) we are the only ones who have control over our livable planet's future.

    I am also a lover of the natural world that surrounds me, and I hate to see it change from human neglect and ignorance. BUT you have to admit, that human impact on the Earth is now at a breaking point, and I believe within our lifetime, something ill will be on our doorsteps that we will have to deal with because of decades of overgrowth, development and depletion of natural resources causing inner turmoil within the normal workings of our planet. I don't want to see that happen during our lifetime, and I don't want our children to have to deal with the consequences. I also agree that a lot of the factors can be rebutted with new forms of technology and science. That's if the politicians let us have them. Remember the electric car???

    We are stewards of our Earth and we must treat it with respect.
    I apologize too for the outburst and if I've come across as condescending. I do agree that we pollute our surrounding areas and are depleting our resources. We have to develop/use new technology to prevent that. We just are not responsible for natural disasters and climate change.

    I may have letters after my name, but there are plenty of others, like yourself, who are studying the topic. That is the first step. I know several people who research this topic and understand it better than some claiming to be experts on television. Just because FOX or CNN call them an expert doesn't necessarily mean they know more than the average citizen who is researching it. Also, sometimes so-called experts and even scientists have been influenced by politics.

    I am concerned with our oceans and other bodies of water. All life is linked to water and we do need to protect it. Since government only cares about greed and bailing out corrupt bankers, we have to take on the role ourselves. Government no longer works correctly and we have to make our voice heard. Then, maybe they will listen or we will just make the change ourselves.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by zach619 View Post
    Am I crazy, or is it just colder there than normal, much faster than normal.
    Buoy 44009 (off OCMD) is reading about 40-41 today. Checked and last year on January 13 it was running 44-45. mid 40s would be about normal for mid January in OCMD so we're running a few degrees below average but nothing all that out of the ordinary.

    The air temps have been cold for two weeks which affects the water. Air temps are supposed to be warming up a bit in the next week, so you might see water temps bump up a degree of two and put us close to average.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by barrels4liam View Post

    Just because FOX or CNN call them an expert doesn't necessarily mean they know more than the average citizen who is researching it. Also, sometimes so-called experts and even scientists have been influenced by politics.

    .
    it's possible to find a so-called expert who will support just about anything, usually the truth lies somewhere in between the two extremes.

    not a religious discussion - just a thought to ponder - that the bible says God will "bring to ruin those ruining the earth"

  7. #27
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    dont forget that offshore winds create upwelling which in turn creates colder deeper waters moving in from shore. Since it has been blowing offshore for the last 2-3 weeks expect water to be at its coldest point. But hey, if you can deal with it now think of how well you will be surfing in the spring/summer.

  8. #28
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    I remember a few years when it was so cold that slush was in the break zone.

  9. #29

    big ups

    I feel old. My 20 year high school reunion is coming up. And I am please to see that the youth of today is passionate about the environment. No matter what side of this you come down on it is like ECsponger said "get out and clean up the beach don't know wehn its gone". That is what we should be focused on. We have more in common then not. We all want to protect and preserve the spots we cherish. Keep your local breaks clean.

  10. #30
    believing or not believing in global warming/climate change is your own decision. But please, do not give false information. Climate change is an irrevocable fact at this point. I don't know what scientist's research you people are reading that leads you to believe that 'most' scientists do not believe in climate change, but it is actually quite the reverse, with almost unanimous agreement that this is occurring.

    Furthermore, as far as CO2 emissions is concerned, as ocean appreciators and users we should be EXTREMELY concerned. Over the summer I was tuned into some of the research being done by NOAA and it turns out that a high percentage of CO2 released into the atmosphere is actually absorbed by the ocean. How does that affect us? Acidification. In the ocean there is a limited amount of CaCO3 (calcium carbonate) and it is absolutely crucial for the food cycle/life cycles at one of the lowest levels (shellfish). As acidity increases in our oceans it will become harder for calcium needing lifeforms to survive. I don't profess to be an expert on this, nor do I have all the facts that I wish I could spout out (like i wish i could say 33% or 1/3 of all carbon emissions ends up absorbed by the ocean, but my memory is just not reliable...as such, check out the actual facts.)

    if you don't 'trust' wikipedia please click the links to the research.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ocean_acidification

    http://www.pmel.noaa.gov/pubs/PDF/feel2899/feel2899.pdf

    just search for 'co2 in our oceans' or 'ocean acidification' or anything relevant to that for more information.

    Honestly people, for this day and age it is socially irresponsible to continue an arrogant and ignorant attitude towards these issues rather than open-mindedness and concern. I'm not saying you have to buy into Al Gore or anything that extreme, but climate change is an irrefutable fact.

    A large part of misunderstanding/doubt is partially from the influence of propaganda (which also influences the other side, the extremists with their own propaganda) but also a serious problem in comprehension of the human mind. It is an insight that came slowly to me, and continues to amaze me: the shear AMOUNT OF PEOPLE IN THIS WORLD. It may seem quite basic, but think about it - think about how many people are in this world compared to 1900...1800. Think about all the technology that started coming about in the turn of the century 1890-1900, and how rapidly we have taken off technologically. All of these technologies are post-steam (which was of course, coal-powered) and have been fossil fuel powered, only now are we seeing a mainstream shift (slow and steady). That means for over 100 years we have completely shifted to consuming mass amounts of fuels to power our lives. We live at a time wholly different from any other time in HISTORY.

    Here's an exercise: go out to any major road and just watch traffic for 30 minutes. This is especially useful around rush hour. I did this on route 13 a couple times when high in college. It's INSANE the amount of traffic/people driving with no passengers/how many cars go by in just one quarter mile stretch. Now multiply that little stretch of road and how many cars you saw by an extremely large number, and you might be able to comprehend the United States and how many people are driving. Now multiply THAT by a very large number and you might have a slight intimation of how many people are driving in the world - daily. Now look at all the buildings on google earth of just your development, then your city, then your county....and so on....

    can you even comprehend how much ENERGY we consume on a daily basis?! It's absolutely mind boggling and I have a very tough time comprehending it. But when you look at this and how many people there are in the world now, as opposed to even 20 years ago, you can start to see that there is no way we are not affecting the world we live on. How could we not? We are no longer 'changing' the face of the Mother, we have changed her. I don't pretend to know what the future has in store for us, but I do absolutely believe that we have had an influence on the World's systems/checks/balances and because of that things will change. Will we adapt? I'm sure we will, whatever happens, whether it be something drastic or relatively minor. However, please think, investigate, remain open-minded. Don't become extreme on one side of the issue or the other. Remain neutral, but don't scoff in the face of that-which-is in the name of a bias against 'liberals' or 'conservatives'. This shouldn't be a political battle.

    Sustainability is an important message to send our future generations and start practicing ourselves, because as much as we want to believe that our resources and space on this planet are endless, they are not. If population continues to be unchecked in growth (though once a nation becomes a 'developed' nation birth rate historically stabilizes and becomes negative compared to death rate) consumption of all resources (food, water, energy, natural landforms, forests, etc) will continue to go up in exponential amounts. Our population already has been increasing steadily on an exponential rate.

    Forgive me for these tangents, but I have a lot to say.

    It appears population underlies every major issue we have in the modern world. It is such a simple equation which undermines sustainability: The more people we have in the world, the more we will consume, and the more resources that are necessary for everyone to live, even more so to live 'comfortably'. We are already approaching a carrying capacity/critical mass though give it maybe 100 more years. Who knows what the future holds? Will technology keep evolving one step ahead of humanity so as to solve our problems as we need it? We have lots of space to build vertically yet. We have many natural areas of the world left to develop. But to develop is to destroy forever, unless sustainable development is implemented. Population will irrevocably increase, and as it does the strains and demand on resources will also grow. At what point is breaking point? We already can't feed the entire world/quench the thirst of the world/fuel the entire world. Our greatest problems have come out of a need to SUPPLY the world. We've shifted from local/family owned agriculture and farming practices to mega-corporations mechanically running HUGE plots of land and enslaving/engineering/pumping out meat products as metal parts come off the production line. No longer animals, but merely an end product developed, raised, and slaughtered as fast as possible, even going so far as to be genetically modified to quicken the pace. The poor will continue to become poorer - Places like Haiti (the poorest nation in the western hemisphere) will continue to suffer. What about places like Yemen (projected to completely deplete their water sources in 20 years) What are the solutions? Is it ethically sound to place restrictions on growth/birth so as to put a check on population? Is it ethical to stop research on cancer cures/disease cures so as to allow nature to play its hand in declining our numbers? Who are we to deny someone from having a child? A cure? (note these are questions, not my beliefs) Is it right to bring some semblance of humanity back to the creatures we have enslaved and are living tortured existences so as to feed the world? At what cost? It's a catch 22 - We've become dependent on our systems of unsustainability to BE sustained. We bring the animals back to the farms and out of the pens and cages but we won't be able to feed as many people. We pump animals out faster and in greater numbers, we feed more people.

    I digress.

    Hopefully this illustrates a few things: A.) the interconnectedness of our problems - everything is related, and everything is relevant B.) there is hope, for sure, and it is up to us to come up with creative solutions C.) To deny that this world is not changing and remain ignorant is certainly you're opinion, but as a 24 year old man I find arrogance to be socially irresponsible, and offensive. Especially when people are have become too comfortable with their lives speak of these things with no thought. It's one thing to have considered all the issues and speak of it with some semblance of knowledge, it's another to be told things by 'them' and form your opinions based off of that. We must, as always, think for ourselves and if nothing else remain neutral in an issue, because only through neutrality can you truly consider both sides of an issue. It is once you've become completely convinced of something that you become unwilling to consider other ideas.

    -Opus de Capesurfer-
    1/13/2010
    Last edited by capesurfer; Jan 13, 2010 at 05:47 PM.