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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJsurfnfish View Post
    2. Ocean outfall works because the highly treated wastewater is diluted rapidly by the mass of the ocean. Think about the tiny volume of the effluent versus the gigantic mass of the ocean with all its currents.

    5. The treatment plant maintains storage area so that if there is a problem at the plant they can store water and will not be pumping untreated effluent.




    Ed
    #2, I would think is debatable.

    #5 is a good point.

    With that being said, that alleviates most of the issues I have with the systems. I understand that SD and CA base pipes are the only systems that also include rainwater drainage (Which is why they fail, religiously). These are 50 year old systems that were built when the population here was about 200,000. and now its 4 million. It almost never rains, so they just take a gamble every year.... So yes, the DE system would not have the overflow problem caused by the rain overflow....

    So, i am glad that we have started an intelligent conversation about the topic. It sounds like everyone needs to further educate themselves about this topic locally. I still have to chime in and say that I just generally oppose large pipes of sh** going out to sea.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJsurfnfish View Post

    10. Finally this is not California or New Jersey.
    WTF?? how does jersey play in to this, exactly??


    the pipe is a bad idea. period. end of discussion. i am but one of many thousands, possibly hundreds of thousands, of people who have been or currently are deathly ill from untreated waste water outflow. sure, the fact that it's miles off shore makes it seem ok b/c the currents will dilute it, but eventually it all ends up back on the coastline. ditto w/ the army dumps dioxin-tainted dredge spoils off sandy hook back in the 90's or dumping unexploded WWI & II munitions off the coast. it all ends up back on the beach. or it ends up inside us from the seafood we eat.

    having nearly died from an infection directly related to a sewage spill, i'll never be impartial on a topic like this again in my life. but it's pretty easy to see that dumping crap (literally in this case) in the ocean is a bad idea all around.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by EJsurfnfish View Post
    First off Ocean I have nothing against you personally. When I first heard about the proposed pipe I, just like most surfers, thought it was a bad idea until I researched it more and thought about the alternatives. If you love the ocean and the inland bays than I think the lesser of the two evils is to build the outfall pipe. Also, I own no land or property in Rehoboth, I'm not employed by the city of Rehoboth. I work for an environmental consulting company that is not involved with this issue at all. Basically I have no money to gain from this proposal.


    1. Technology is proven and a best bet for the particulars of Rehoboth Beach. Ocean City Maryland and the South Coastal Waste Water Treatment Plant (with its outfall near South Bethany) both discharge treated wastewater to the ocean with zero problems for 20+ years. In fact South Coastal has even received an EPA award for its excellence in operation.

    2. Ocean outfall works because the highly treated wastewater is diluted rapidly by the mass of the ocean. Think about the tiny volume of the effluent versus the gigantic mass of the ocean with all its currents.

    3. Add that to the fact that the Delaware estuary discharges right there and is one of the most nutrient enriched bodies of water in the world. We don't notice this because its naturally turbid.

    4. The only documented environmental affects of outfalls on the ocean communities is a localized increased in plankton biomass, maybe some more fish. There's no evidence that marine animals will become stressed or diseased from the outflow pipe.

    5. The treatment plant maintains storage area so that if there is a problem at the plant they can store water and will not be pumping untreated effluent.

    6. The alternative is to pump to water miles inland and dispose of it into our drinking water aquifers that also feed the inland bays. Rehoboth bay gets much of its freshwater inputs from groundwater. While the treated wastewater might meet drinking water standards for nitrogen when its pumped into the ground, it can ruin the bays. Phosphorus is another issue because it can accumulate in the soil until the soil can't hold any more and it leaches out. Wastewater disposal on land is not yet a perfect technology.

    7. Landbased disposal costs hundreds of dollars more per person per year than ocean outfall. Why? Because land at the beach is at a premium and so they have to pipe it way the hell out. Those dollars can be spent as they wish be people who earn them. Maybe they would want to put them towards restoring the inland bays.

    8. The Bays are still moderately to highly polluted by excess nitrogen and phosphorus. Rehoboth Bay used to have clear water and be nearly half covered by sea grass meadows. Now the seagrasses are all gone so are the oysters and the oxygen is unhealthy for the young fish that want to use it for a nursery so they can grow in to big fish we catch. During summer mornings oxygen levels in the tributaries regularly drop to lethal levels for fish. Wastewater disposed of on land goes to the inland bays where dilution is much much less than the ocean.

    9. But what about the freshwater? isn't global warming going to deplete our aquifers and aren't we throwing away all this resource? The Columbia aquifer has insane capacity and it refills itself every winter with rainwater. Climate change is not predicted to increase or decrease total annual rainfall in the Mid-Atlantic. We do not live in the Northeast where increases are predicted, we do not live in the Southeast where dercreases have been predicted.

    10. Finally this is not California or New Jersey.

    11. The only possible outstanding issue that I've heard of is the modeling of the currents at the discharge. From what I understand the screening level analysis was fine but they might need to do more work to ensure that unacceptable amounts of the treated effluent will not be carried near the shore. If this info is correct I'm assuming this is part of the process, if the impact study finds the levels to be unacceptable then it obviously can't be done. Nobody wants to dive head first into a floating brown snake.

    Also, you said we know more about the moon than the Delaware Bay. Do you really believe that? Seriously? There have been a ton of studies done in the Bay.


    Ed
    My purpose here wasnt to get into a debate but to simply put some facts on the table.....to shine a light on the situation because a lot of residents(and non-res) dont know about it. Now I feel like I have to address the above statements as they are a little obscure and somewhat untrue.

    1. Opinion
    2.....hint.....my username
    3. OK, OK
    4. There are plenty more documented affects. Some come up on Google but if you want to really see some heavy research go to the local university library and read some journals. True, there is no evidence yet that supports any issues with marine mammals.
    5. True
    6. Wastewater disposal on land is not yet a perfect technology.....true.
    7. LBA is more expensive. So the people trying to save money on the outfall are going to spend it on fixing the inland bays?
    8.True...I miss those good ol eel grass beds.
    9.In sussex county the main use of groundwater is ag irrigation. This actually changes the dynamics of groundwater in terms of how it naturally flows. Yes, the aquifer is a good one.
    10. Correct
    11. I couldnt have said it better. True!

    Yes, there is actually more information known about our moon than the Delaware bay benthic habitats. That said, research is key to knowledge.

    Wikipidia has discredited a lot of scientists......joking.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by zach619 View Post
    We dont need any MORE! That is the point. Did I say Rehobeth was giong to be the first pipe? If you are going to call me, please don't misquote me. I said nothing of the sort. The idea was bad 30 years ago in OC.

    How about the people of deleware learn from the mistakes that MD already made. I mean sh**, whats your point? A bad pipe is a bad pipe.
    I did not quote you or attempt to quote you in any way. However since you brought it up, here is your quote below. Are you seriously going to say that you weren't under the impression that OC and S. Bethany already had outfall pipes when you wrote this? Because it's pretty clear that you did not and were implying that the Rehoboth outfall would create some risk to OC that didn't already exist. Just want to give you a chance to save some credibility.

    ohh boy, I cant wait to surf North OC MD in years to come. When there is a nice South Drift coming down the DE coast, I will duck dive and come up with a mouthful of someone else's dingleberries!!! Awesome. Can't wait.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Porto View Post
    I did not quote you or attempt to quote you in any way. However since you brought it up, here is your quote below. Are you seriously going to say that you weren't under the impression that OC and S. Bethany already had outfall pipes when you wrote this? Because it's pretty clear that you did not and were implying that the Rehoboth outfall would create some risk to OC that didn't already exist. Just want to give you a chance to save some credibility.

    ohh boy, I cant wait to surf North OC MD in years to come. When there is a nice South Drift coming down the DE coast, I will duck dive and come up with a mouthful of someone else's dingleberries!!! Awesome. Can't wait.
    Wow, thanks for the opportunity to prove my "credability". I am not trying to be a jerk about it, but the fact that I was unaware of the South Bethany Pipe does not matter. Yes, when I was 12 years old, in OC, I was unaware.

    Does that matter? No. Does that change my opinion, No.

    So, let me ask you a few things.

    Have you ever been hosptialized from sewage spills into the ocean? Well, I have.

    Have you ever had a doctor tell you that the bactiera levels in the ocean almost ended your life... Well I have.

    have you had a mdeical staff tell you that it was due to the bacteria levels that were released from the local sewage pipe 1 mile south of where you surf everyday.

    So, really, all BS aside, im not trying to be a dic* about it. But you guys can swear up and down that all the human feces is "Dilluted" and that there are no rainfall/overflow issues etc... You are reading data produced by the very companies who plan on implimenting these systems....

    I dont care what the ratio or percentages are... if there is a .00000000000001% chance that one of you will be bed ridden for a month, unable to walk because you surfed within a mile of one of these precious drain pipes when it has a malfuction... And if that is a posibility, you shouldnt want anything to do with these pipes...

    Talk to NJSURFER about it. He sounds like a jersey native WHO ALSO ALMOST DIED because of these sewage pipes, Not in CA either. With the same kind of systems that you are speaking of...

    So, if I was someone, who actually spent daily water time anywhere on the midatlantic coast, there is NO WAY, that you could ever convince me that this is SAFE, or a good idea...

    I am probably wrong... But that is because I have had this scenario happen to me, in real life. All case studies and statistics aside, I almost became one..... So, I air on the side of caution. Call me uniformed. Call me out of the loop. Call me what you will. But I would vote any clown out of office who back this idea. ANYONE....

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by zach619 View Post
    Wow, thanks for the opportunity to prove my "credability". I am not trying to be a jerk about it, but the fact that I was unaware of the South Bethany Pipe does not matter. Yes, when I was 12 years old, in OC, I was unaware.

    Does that matter? No. Does that change my opinion, No.

    So, let me ask you a few things.

    Have you ever been hosptialized from sewage spills into the ocean? Well, I have.

    Have you ever had a doctor tell you that the bactiera levels in the ocean almost ended your life... Well I have.

    have you had a mdeical staff tell you that it was due to the bacteria levels that were released from the local sewage pipe 1 mile south of where you surf everyday.

    So, really, all BS aside, im not trying to be a dic* about it. But you guys can swear up and down that all the human feces is "Dilluted" and that there are no rainfall/overflow issues etc... You are reading data produced by the very companies who plan on implimenting these systems....

    I dont care what the ratio or percentages are... if there is a .00000000000001% chance that one of you will be bed ridden for a month, unable to walk because you surfed within a mile of one of these precious drain pipes when it has a malfuction... And if that is a posibility, you shouldnt want anything to do with these pipes...

    Talk to NJSURFER about it. He sounds like a jersey native WHO ALSO ALMOST DIED because of these sewage pipes, Not in CA either. With the same kind of systems that you are speaking of...

    So, if I was someone, who actually spent daily water time anywhere on the midatlantic coast, there is NO WAY, that you could ever convince me that this is SAFE, or a good idea...

    I am probably wrong... But that is because I have had this scenario happen to me, in real life. All case studies and statistics aside, I almost became one..... So, I air on the side of caution. Call me uniformed. Call me out of the loop. Call me what you will. But I would vote any clown out of office who back this idea. ANYONE....

    bingo.

    it's hard to be rational/logical/analytical about something like this when you almost ended up as one of the numbers people cite in debates about this sort of thing.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkegLegs View Post
    EJ, you better watch your words about the surfrider. You do realize if Rastavich gets word of this thread he's going to paddle a kayak across the Atlantic, up the Delaware river, into the Christina, and then show up on your doorstep and beat with with a mallet made of whalebone, wrapped in Dolphin foreskin.
    Haha, I don't know if Rasta wants to get a nice slime coating on his kayak from the dirty azz Christina.

    NJsurfer and Zach, I feel your pain. My friend and I both came down with a severe stomach infection after surfing Baja Malibu in Mex just after a winter rain. I thought I could beat it and didn't go to the doctor's until I literally could not stand up. I lost 15 pounds and had to be put on some big antibiotics. The only problem is if we go the LBA route I fear more people will get sick in the bays.

    The reason I mentioned California and New Jersey is because Delaware is different. We don't have the old system of outfall pipes, population, or runoff problems. Our water has always tested relatively low for bacteria counts. Our actual beach sand has higher bacteria levels than the water. Our inland bay water is a different story. Nothing against NJ, the waves there are some of the best on the east coast.