Discussing Roy's surfboard designs.

What do you do when your product doesn't sell in a competitive marketplace?

1. Lower your price.
or
2. Raise your price.

What do you do, however, when your product is so inferior & outmoded that not only is no one interested in buying it at the standard price, no one is interested in buying it at a lower, below-market price?

1. Stop making the product
or
2. Raise the price so high, raise it to exorbitant, near-astronomical levels, and label the same, inferior & outmoded product a rarity worth the 'new' much higher price tag.

In Stuart's case, he chose door number 2. Then came the tried & tested selling program. Here's how its done:

A. You justify the massively higher price tag with pop-psychology terminology cloaked in pseudo-technical terms.
B. You deride or disparage anyone who performs a review of your sub-par product as 'not knowing how to use the product properly.'
C. You portray your previously-lousy product as a unique piece of performance art that is so different from anything on the market that it is better by its mere existence.
D. You take the aggressive marketing stance that the purveyors of crap products the world over have taken for decades, namely, you state that your claims of product performance must be proven wrong rather than you actually proving that your claims of product performance are true.
E. You repeat your claims so many times & at such volume & in as many product marketing venues as possible that your noise drowns out objectivity for some consumers & they then fall victim to your bogus claims of product performance.
F. You sell to ignorant consumers who fall victim to your marketing scams.

That's Roy Stuart, and that's his business model, in a nutshell.

After many years of failing to crack the competitive market with his creations, Stuart the shaper essentially did all of the above, A - F. Perhaps it was his inspiration to do so after a long night drowning his failing business sorrows in a sea of Lion Red beer. Whilst on the piss, Stuart derived his new strategy (see above). And this is where you have it today with this guy.

As for anyone who buys a Stuart board, Barnum said it best: "There's a sucker born every minute."

 

What model board have you sold, and at what price? How many?

 

Waist high, clean, with long duration. That is my idea of a perfect wave. Again, much nicer than what we normally see out here.

 

I figured it out! Roy's inspiration came from a platypus.

 

A symmetrically foiled fins does create lift. It's just at zero angle of attack, the lift on both sides is balanced and equal, and there is no motion. But once you change the angle of attack, even slightly, forces become unbalanced, and motion occurs. So technically, single fins can and do create lift.... but it's nothing compared to the amount of lift created by a single foiled fin, so this is a bit of a play on words, IMO.

The real issue here worth discussing is the comparison between the effects of a single fin and a thruster or quad or bonzer etc setup in terms of the ability to generate speed. This is a whole other discussion... the application of lift in surfboard performance. Add in the effects of that hoop shaped fin behind the single and you add a whole other set of dynamics.

 

No kidding man. No buddy really feels our pain in Charleston. My first time surfing Wrightsville beach I passed some guys leaving the beach looking pissed about the waves. When i saw them I was pumped and stayed out there most of the day. I would call out of work for the waves in this video.

 

Im very dissapointed in you LBCrew. I would describe the imbalance you mention as a pull to one side or the other, but to call it lift would be like saying someone who jumps up and down was flying. Not to mention Koo Koo Roy will take your comments as support of his design.... which I have to now say again...

ROY'S BOARDS CREATE ZERO LIFT....
Roy,don't buy it? you fly in an airplane with no wings but all the vertical fins you want. I'll fly in a regular airplane with wings.... we'll compare notes at the end....

Roy's design, while producing a cool looking artsy thing, is not anywhere near as capable as a modern longboard. The problem with all the longboarders we see in Koo Koo Roy's video is that they all seem to be bad at surfing... even the "enforcer" that Roy was talking about.

 

I don't know why you guys are still entertaining the surfboard shaper from Mordor.

 

Roy,

Thanks for putting this up.

I'll say it again, I and a large portion of the SI crowd have a different idea of what performing on a surfboard means. Like I said earlier, you have a go-fast, go-straight board and in your mind that is the epitome of efficiency. That's fine with me.

I think the surfer's idea of performance in this video have more in common with a lot of the SI users. In the video at 1:36 Beano tries a couple times to make a front side turn up the face of the wave. He tries this unsuccessfully then moves back further on the board to try again and still can't do it and finishes out the ride by jumping over the wave at 1:45.

Later, when Jay is on the board he seems to be riding further back on the board as well and getting bumped around pretty violently but still holding on at 3:18 you can see he is trying to trim up to find the high line and at 3:24 attempts a backside turn down the wave and the board proves to be too unstable for him to complete the turn. The later rides show him trying to carve but unable to as the back of the board is too deep in the water.

I know that these guy obviously don't know how to ride this board as you stated earlier. You ride closer to the nose than them. However, this video and their surfing also serve as examples of how the board they're riding, that shares similar design principles to your other boards, is able to catch waves and trim but fails when a carving turn is attempted.

Early on in the Naval Architecture of Planing Hull by Lindsay Lord he writes of the early Japanese and Italian PT boats with 1800 HP that "took ten boat lengths to turn, with speed falling off badly during the turn." We see evidence of this with your videos. These surfers attempted turns and were punished for it, you trim but attempt no turns. We've seen this many times through the videos you've provided.

Again, as I've said earlier, there is a problem with the definition of performance. In my opinion, your definition of performance is riding a wave for as long as possible with minimal movement. My definition of performance would also be riding a wave as long as possible but meanwhile, I try to see the top and bottom of the wave and with a powerful turn in there if possible.... throwing buckets if you will. That's just me and my level of progression right now. If you are at the top of the game for the boards you're making and riding how do you see them progressing? I see people riding modern surfboard doing backflips now. Where is the future performance of your designs going?

 

Another question for your Roy. What type of vehicle do you drive? No ill intent with the question, just wondering if your vehicle is modded out for efficiency too.

 

Clemson Surf, that was more than Roy deserves in a reply. He is not here to have a 2 way discussion. He is here to force feed us the absolute most ridiculous idea of a surfboard and make us believe it has no weakness in its design.
Which does not take anyone long to see his board falls painfully short.
So... what is the future of Roy's boards? Roy's surfboards have no future other then an interesting blip to dissapear in time. Roy will be the only voice and when his voice is gone so will his boards.

 

I've been here from the begining and know the game very well.

 

As I said, it seems to me to be a bit of a play on words, at least in the context of this discussion. And that seems to be the theme of this entire thread... terms like "lift," "efficiency," "performance"... and dozens of others are being used without consistency across the divide between Roy and his detractors... all with varying degrees of truth, and nothing but cursory suggestions of explanation. This thread has been nothing but a game... one that everyone involved is loving to play. People love to hate on Roy, and Roy is toying with anyone who will play along. (He'll likely deny that... we'll see.)

Still... I believe Roy has a lot of knowledge about design theory, at least as it relates to his designs... more than most. I'm simply trying to understand HOW his boards work, and understand it in a non-judgmental way, because the argument of "good or bad," "better or worse" gets nowhere when you have different design goals. So I do not support his designs... they're not in line with my design goals. I just think it's interesting to see how his various design principals are put together to achieve a desired result... and I believe he's doing just that. It's just not a result I'm after, personally. Whether Roy can do the same, and recognize the benefits of other design principles applied to other design goals, is questionable. But calling modern surfing aimless flapping, and criticizing other shapers and their products, even going so far as to call them goons, does not imply that he has much appreciation for the work and contributions of others. Now go ahead, Roy... tell me how "incorrect" I am. Since my reading comprehension skills need improvement, and I have no idea about the physics of surfing or how the thruster works, I'm sure I've gotten you, and your boards, all wrong.

 

It's all about the g-force. You don't get much from cruising, which is why modern longboards are made to turn quickly. That is what gets your adrenaline going.

 

As I said before, single fins don't cut it when it comes to lift. if a single fin is the same shape on both sides (which in surfboards they are) there is no measurable lift being imparted onto the board.

Roy I honestly think you have zero clue as what is happening with your surfboard.