And I dont mean waves... Im not asking what side you are on. I am asking your thoughts on both sides... Since so many recent threads have turned into political rants, I figured I would just start an honest thread about it. I would venture to guess that there are more on this site to the left than to the right, but I would say I have seen a pretty mixed bag of opinions on what separates the two. After a republican bashing thread that I was reading recently, I feel the need to say this: I think both sides, left and right have become something that they did not intend for. Right wing is about keeping money on american soil, keeping illegal immigration out, keeping government regulations out of business, capitalism and allowing entrepreneurs and small business' to reap the benefits of their ideas and innovations, while not penalizing them for success. Left wing is all about so called "equality" for all. Heathcare for all. And turning our government into a regulatory system that provides services for all citizens, employed or unemployed. They handed out billions of dollars to an industry that failed our nation and destroyed our economy, while asking the working class to pick up the tab, rather than letting capitalism thrive and allowing these corrupt, inefficient banks and corporations to fail and file chapter 11 across the board, allowing the few honest, successful banks and businesses to pick up the tabs and the loans and reap the benefits of proper business. Instead we are back to square one... In my opinion, the Right wing does not consist of either super-weathly busines tycoons trying to hoard their money or lowly blue collar workers that are in the bottom tier of income classifications, who still fight for guns and freedom... That is a misconception. As a 30 year old white male in this nation, who paid for his own education, worked every day since he was 18, including through college, has never purchased anything that was out of his means, and never took out a home loan with a floating interest rate on a 600,000 2 bedroom condo in San Diego like everyone else did.... In my opinion, most of us on this site fall into my category. The forgotten. Im not rich and Im not poor. I have never taken a handout because I dont need to. I pay for my own health insurance for myself and my family, because that is my responsibility as a man, a father and as a citizen... I have never gotten a scholarship for the color of my skin. I have never gotten a job to fill a quota spot either. In a different day in age, I would proabably be on the left wing too, but I am sick and tired of hearing about equality for all and socialized medical care and all these different ideas that DONT COCNERN ME... Its hard to support a cause when it NEVER and I mean NEVER involves me... The left is always about supporting "IDEAS" that dont concern me. Do I think everyone in America should have health care? No. Not at all. Until our already terrible healthcare system gets broken down the way it should and fixed, we dont need to pack more weight onto it, so these insurance companies and healthcare companies continue to bludgeon the public over astronomical costs... The amount of wastes testing, wastes materials, paperwork, going through 18 different entities to process all this crap. Our healthcare system is BROKEN... So if you can't afford it, you dont get it. Sorry... The ER will take you in if you ever have a serious issue. Or get state assistance like everyone in SC does... There are options... But if you don't pay into this sh**, you shouldn't get it. Its like the bank bail outs. Its just going hand in hand with more corruption. Giving health insurance and healthcare companies more money to waste, and pocket and expand... Handing over a government monopoly... &$*# that... Just write another Blank check to Bank of America, Wells Fargo and the other guys again why dont you, instead of making them pay for their losses.... American jobs would have been lost? Sorry, but good. We don't need collection call centers for these bank churning out labor hours 2000 deep 24 hours per day. We dont need 785 bank branches within a 4 mile radius... Those jobs probably never should have been created, but with a bloated economy, they just started dumping cash out everywhere they could... Stirke while the iron is hot... Well its cold now, and you all got saved... So, I love the ocean, I love nature, I want people to live happy lives, so I dont really care about social issues like Gay Marriage and stuff anymore. I dont really care about guns either... I want the ability to own one at will, but I care not about any of this sh**.... I just care about my spending, always going up up up.... While other peoples spending goes down down down. Because they simple take what is "owed to them" for being a living breathing american... The state of this country is poor at best. And its not the government's fault. Its the PEOPLES fault... Watch what happens in 2014, when every company in america cuts hours down under 30 per week and they start firing people so they can make adjustments for "ObamaCare".... All these people on the left, well not all, but plenty dont care. They arent working 30 hours per week anyway. I am not a wealthy business owner, YET, but I work for one. And it is my direct responsibilities to manage an enormous staff and consider all of these factors... What do you think I am going to have to do when it comes down to it... Answer to the wealthy, who are not going to go down without a fight about this stuff... Im just saying, Papa Johns aint the only one. Its going to be EVERY small or large business in this country... Its not going to be pretty.
So what is your point? There is a saying, if you cannot make your point in 5 minutes, you do not have one.....and that took longer than 5 minutes to write. BTW, you make some valid observations....not knocking what you said. This can be very frustrating and I have asked many of the same questions. In the end, I act locally and get involved with the community I live in....because I simply do not care about some ghetto project or wealthy guy's tax bracket. It has nothing to do with my family or friends and no matter what I do, I will never have an impact. I do care about the wars we are fighting and the treatment of the soldiers as I think our country is failing them on all fronts...and they DESERVE/DEMAND better treatment. I guess I do not really have a point either except to act locally.
I guess my point is. I work hard every day, always have. I pay my taxes. I pay my debts. I paid for my education. I take care of my family and purchase health care. I don't want other people getting things that I work very hard for on my tab.... I guess that makes me a conservative right winger. Because social equality doesn't concern me. A straight, 30 year old married white man will not benefit from gay marriage, gun laws, socialized health care, affirmative action or pretty much ANYTHING on the left wings agenda... It literally does not matter to me. Im just sicking of being told to vote or make decisions based on sh** that benefits a lot of other people, but never including me. Its happened my entire life. Since I was a kid this country has been that way. Every 2-4 years, people shove ideas down our throats, but why is it, in my adult life no one has EVER been looking out for me. There was never a "Lets help pay the hard working white guys college loans off because the banks are defaulting" initiative... Its always some BS for somebody else. There are no "Lets help the people who werent stupid and didn't take out bad loans by giving them a great deal on a home loan" first time buyer program... And while I dont agree with everything on the right, I care way more about what they are preaching than the other guys. Its not the 50s anymore. Everyone has been on the same level playing field for a LONG TIME now... I really dont care about everyone elses social concerns. Grow up and take care of your own lives. We have been relegated to voting on nothing but BULLSH**. Prior to the Obama admin, we had to base all of our decisions on WAR and defense.. its always something either way to deter from sh** that really matters. Nobody in this country needs anymore hand outs. We are already bleeding to death. Make it stop.
it sucks that you have to pick a side to get elected. people should run as individuals not affiliated with a party. the two party system is ****ed
Both have their share of issues, which is why I have always been independent. Here are my issues with both parties: Democrat - Spend too much on social programs like welfare - Many would like to ban all guns, which is asinine and will never happen. Obama is not one of these people, luckily. - All for many "green" programs like alternative fuels, but have little knowledge on the technology or feasibility. Republican - Heavily ruled by the Christian lobbyists and religious right. This is a big one, since many senators and representatives only believe in the bible, which clouds their view on reality. - Always holding back or limiting funding to scientific research and space exploration - Many are for the fair tax, which will only widen the gap between the wealthy/ultra-wealthy and the rest of us - Anti-abortion in an overpopulated world - Pro-war/military in a world already saturated with wars - Many have little to no concern with nature or the state of our environment I used to vote republican long long ago, when I was 18. However, living in the south and experiencing the world has moved me away from that party. They have also have some issue, in recent years, where they are becoming the party for the wealthy. They keep fighting for the people that don't need any help. It didn't used to be like that. Independent is they best way for me to live my life.
See, I am truly independent at heart, but the fact that you can't vote in either of the sides primaries etc. is why even as a true independent, I would rather pick a side to at least have a voice at that stage of the game, but then being able to ultimately vote for whomever you want on the big day.
Actually you sound like a libertarian. The modern right wingers sound more and more like they all come from money. That very distant from the hard working, middle class, regular guy. Those are some of the negatives, but the left also supports medical research, space exploration, and many other scientific studies that could benefit you. Unfortunately, Obama panders to both sides so much, we are getting a mix of negative actions, without much of the positive.
Couldn't agree more, very well said. Was very conservative when I was younger, but as I have experienced and traveled more, find myself moving further and further away from the people representing the party. Would love to vote Republican again one day, when the go back to being actually being conservative. Perhaps one day we can have a multi-party system. Or least not a system where a Libertarian (true conservative) like Ron Paul doesn't have to embrace ideals he doesn't believe in just to have a voice. He really bummed me out...Oh well, that's politics!
True, and the wealthy don't need tax breaks. Both sides are guilty here, and the hard working middle class always gets the shaft. Aside from my anger about that, social programs still take up a very small portion of the overall spending in this country. What we really spend too much on is wars and defense. Our country has a bad reputation in the international scene, and both parties keep making it worse. We need to stop fighting wars and work with allies for other solutions.
Ron Paul is a little looney with his international policies, but he was great with national issues. I really believe he was the best candidate in the last election, but the two party system ended that quickly.
This is a sad commentary that somewhat illustrates a problem....just because it concern you directly, doesn't mean it doesn't concern millions of other around the US. And it could easily be argued that in the long term ALL of those thing will affect you, perhaps you may even benefit from it (I.E. Gay Marriage= more monogamy = less AIDS spread = lower healthcare costs across the board) just an example, but you get the point.
the ironic thing is that most big money donors are liberal democrats!! I'm a classical conservative...believe in limited government, personal responsibility AND personal freedom. Flush the social conservatism crap which is not conservatism at all but theocratic authoritarianism.
I know my statement sounds bad, but its the truth.... I am saying, ive been living in this country, born and raised for over 30 years. And since as far back as I can remember, its always been ideals and topics that TRULY dont concern me. I understand that country isnt about me me me... But its not supposed to NEVER be about you. And yes, in a round about way, these topics could catch up and effect me one way or the other. But NONE of these topics will make me chose a candidate. Because at the end of the day, I dont care about the outcome of any of these things, and most of the time I do feel strongly about any of these LEFT ideas I end up voting just to oppose it. Its never any ideas that I like or support. It always me hoping to help throw the wrench in other pointless agenda that doesn't DIRECTLY effect me or my family.
Its going to take the republicans a long time to cleanup the mess left by the democrats. ... this comment should be good for another 14 pages now... lol.
Yes, I agree on a personal level, that "the rich" dont deserve tax breaks... However, there is way more to it than that. Most "wealthy" individuals own businesses and are a HUGE portion of our economy. Most people arent born rich, they aquire wealth. So when you DONT give small to mid-sized companies, which are owned by the wealthy, tax breaks for doing business and driving the economy, the "wealthy" stop spending. When Uncle sam doesnt give them tax breaks, they keep the money anyway and start laying people off. Its the trickle down effect. The rich and poor are directly connect with most of us right in the middle... But when you are in the middle, and the guys above you get axed by the government, its coming out of our paychecks... The rich will STAY rich no matter what... Its just much better for the middle class when the rich are getting richer... It when the rich start getting less rich and the poor start getting less poor that the middle class suffers on both sides. Lower wages, longer hours, more production out of less people so the rich can make up for their losses by labor cuts and the money chopped off the top goes right back underneath you in government handouts... When the rich get less rich and the poor get less poor, we take the brunt of it... Not them.
I feel there is good and bad of each side. I can litterally agrue both sides of a lot of issues in my own head. In my opinion, the only way to vote is based on your job. What benefits you financially is what you sould vote for. I'm in the healthcare industry an Obama is destroying it, so I did not want him to win. He directly affects my ability to earn a living.
I would say 9 out of 10 of us that dont work for the government on here work for someone who is wealthy one way or another. Whether its your boss, or the owner of your company or business... So we directly answer to them... And when they get tax breaks at the end of the year, that is where bonuses come from and the trickle down effects start working... When the rich make more money, they are more likely to spread the wealth downward internally. I would much rather $500,000 in a tax break be in my owner's hand than back into the governments hands to distribute at will... At least the money will be well spent within our own business and local economy to protect my job and the wellbeing of the business... They same goes for everyone... When your boss losses money, taxed or not, you will lose money too. No matter what... I trust money in the business owners hands, not the government.
My answer is applicable to both surfing and politics. I'll go the way that makes most sense at the moment. Sometimes I'll change my mind mid-drop in if I see something I don't like. Not every wave is the same. Not every topic is the same. Open your minds, folks, don't be part of the problem. Vote on the topic, not the party, and PLEASE, for the love of god, form your own opinions.
