Artic Ice Cap

Discussion in 'All Discussions' started by OceanO, Sep 8, 2013.

  1. OceanO

    OceanO Well-Known Member

    218
    Jul 23, 2013
    WTF?

    http://www.sott.net/article/266106-...with-top-scientists-warning-of-global-cooling
    David Rose
    Daily Mail UK
    Sun, 08 Sep 2013 00:42 CDTPrint
    A chilly Arctic summer has left nearly a million more square miles of ocean covered with ice than at the same time last year - an increase of 60 per cent. The rebound from 2012's record low comes six years after the BBC reported that global warming would leave the Arctic ice-free in summer by 2013.

    Instead, days before the annual autumn re-freeze is due to begin, an unbroken ice sheet more than half the size of Europe already stretches from the Canadian islands to Russia's northern shores. The Northwest Passage from the Atlantic to the Pacific has remained blocked by pack-ice all year. More than 20 yachts that had planned to sail it have been left ice-bound and a cruise ship attempting the route was forced to turn back.

    Some eminent scientists now believe the world is heading for a period of cooling that will not end until the middle of this century - a process that would expose computer forecasts of imminent catastrophic warming as dangerously misleading.

    The disclosure comes 11 months after The Mail on Sunday triggered intense political and scientific debate by revealing that global warming has 'paused' since the beginning of 1997 - an event that the computer models used by climate experts failed to predict.


    In March, this newspaper further revealed that temperatures are about to drop below the level that the models forecast with '90 per cent certainty'.

    The pause - which has now been accepted as real by every major climate research centre - is important, because the models' predictions of ever-increasing global temperatures have made many of the world's economies divert billions of pounds into 'green' measures to counter climate change.

    Those predictions now appear gravely flawed.

    There won't be any ice at all! How the BBC predicted chaos in 2007

    Only six years ago, the BBC reported that the Arctic would be ice-free in summer by 2013, citing a scientist in the US who claimed this was a 'conservative' forecast. Perhaps it was their confidence that led more than 20 yachts to try to sail the Northwest Passage from the Atlantic to the Pacific this summer. As of last week, all these vessels were stuck in the ice, some at the eastern end of the passage in Prince Regent Inlet, others further west at Cape Bathurst.

    Shipping experts said the only way these vessels were likely to be freed was by the icebreakers of the Canadian coastguard. According to the official Canadian government website, the Northwest Passage has remained ice-bound and impassable all summer.

    The BBC's 2007 report quoted scientist Professor Wieslaw Maslowski, who based his views on super-computer models and the fact that 'we use a high-resolution regional model for the Arctic Ocean and sea ice'.

    He was confident his results were 'much more realistic' than other projections, which 'underestimate the amount of heat delivered to the sea ice'. Also quoted was Cambridge University expertProfessor Peter Wadhams. He backed Professor Maslowski, saying his model was 'more efficient' than others because it 'takes account of processes that happen internally in the ice'.

    He added: 'This is not a cycle; not just a fluctuation. In the end, it will all just melt away quite suddenly.'
    The continuing furore caused by The Mail on Sunday's revelations - which will now be amplified by the return of the Arctic ice sheet - has forced the UN's climate change body to hold a crisis meeting.

    The UN Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) was due in October to start publishing its Fifth Assessment Report - a huge three-volume study issued every six or seven years. It will now hold a pre-summit in Stockholm later this month.

    Leaked documents show that governments which support and finance the IPCC are demanding more than 1,500 changes to the report's 'summary for policymakers'. They say its current draft does not properly explain the pause.

    At the heart of the row lie two questions: the extent to which temperatures will rise with carbon dioxide levels, as well as how much of the warming over the past 150 years - so far, just 0.8C - is down to human greenhouse gas emissions and how much is due to natural variability.

    In its draft report, the IPCC says it is '95 per cent confident' that global warming has been caused by humans - up from 90 per cent in 2007.

    This claim is already hotly disputed. US climate expert Professor Judith Curry said last night: 'In fact, the uncertainty is getting bigger. It's now clear the models are way too sensitive to carbon dioxide. I cannot see any basis for the IPCC increasing its confidence level.'

    She pointed to long-term cycles in ocean temperature, which have a huge influence on climate and suggest the world may be approaching a period similar to that from 1965 to 1975, when there was a clear cooling trend. This led some scientists at the time to forecast an imminent ice age.

    Professor Anastasios Tsonis, of the University of Wisconsin, was one of the first to investigate the ocean cycles. He said: 'We are already in a cooling trend, which I think will continue for the next 15 years at least. There is no doubt the warming of the 1980s and 1990s has stopped.

    'The IPCC claims its models show a pause of 15 years can be expected. But that means that after only a very few years more, they will have to admit they are wrong.'

    Others are more cautious. Dr Ed Hawkins, of Reading University, drew the graph published by The Mail on Sunday in March showing how far world temperatures have diverged from computer predictions. He admitted the cycles may have caused some of the recorded warming, but insisted that natural variability alone could not explain all of the temperature rise over the past 150 years.

    Nonetheless, the belief that summer Arctic ice is about to disappear remains an IPCC tenet, frequently flung in the face of critics who point to the pause.

    Yet there is mounting evidence that Arctic ice levels are cyclical. Data uncovered by climate historians show that there was a massive melt in the 1920s and 1930s, followed by intense re-freezes that ended only in 1979 - the year the IPCC says that shrinking began.

    Professor Curry said the ice's behaviour over the next five years would be crucial, both for understanding the climate and for future policy. 'Arctic sea ice is the indicator to watch,' she said.
     
  2. mushdoc

    mushdoc Well-Known Member

    323
    Jan 30, 2013
    Is this a surprise for you? Global warming( er...climate change) is just a huge money con.
     

  3. waterbaby

    waterbaby Well-Known Member

    Oct 1, 2012
    good...now we can concentrate on the pacific gyre.

    although, I still believe in global warming. There's just too much traffic, electricity consumption and deforestation not to.
     
  4. OceanO

    OceanO Well-Known Member

    218
    Jul 23, 2013
    lol. we actually agree waterbaby. it's as weird as growing ice caps
     
  5. Paddington Jetty Bear

    Paddington Jetty Bear Well-Known Member

    Apr 23, 2013
    And Ryan Kimmel Gleason Noonan, I can dig up articles saying that this stretch of earth used to be covered in ice and now it's not....and show polar bears all bummed out and eskimos all upset because their way of life is being heated off the earth and all of that......

    The BBC reported that ALL of the arctic's ice would be gone by 2013? They must have been hitting the sherry early that day. You know Winston Churchill was an alcoholic, right?

    Hey let me throw this real life, scenario. I am short(4'10'') and I'm Irish. So, I can melt in the heat. Many moons ago, I NEVER got burnt by sun after 3:00 pm.

    The past few years I get burnt by sun even at 6:00 pm. Yeah, really.

    Now, I'm no Mr. Brewengineer and I got a "C" in high school chemistry......I did ok in Freshman "Earth Science" and actually I forget how I did in High School and college Biology.....though my high school Biology teacher was a black albino with severe diabetes.......yeah, that's totally true.

    SO anyways, I'm no scientist but there's something different going on there.

    Wow, Ryan Kimmel Gleason Noonan, I would have had you pegged as a global warming type of dude......Swellinfo is always full of surprises......
     
  6. Paddington Jetty Bear

    Paddington Jetty Bear Well-Known Member

    Apr 23, 2013
    Wow holy shoot, for some reason I thought Archy was the man of this thread. Wow, totally dropped that one....

    SORRY, Mr. Ocean0................I gots totally confused there. See, I'm human a err too.

    You see I call Archy the names of Jersey pro surfers cause he won't tell me who he is even though he got a WHO's DA GUY feature in ESM..............My God he's modest
     
  7. OceanO

    OceanO Well-Known Member

    218
    Jul 23, 2013
    i just thought it was funny. more fun to read about then confused tropical eskimos.

    reminded me of a science video we had to watch in elementary school with Lenard Nimoy claiming we were heading toward another ice age.
     
  8. Paddington Jetty Bear

    Paddington Jetty Bear Well-Known Member

    Apr 23, 2013
    You do realize Winston Churchill was an alcoholic, right?

    Most of our presidents have been alcoholics.......or their brothers were............
     
  9. brewengineer

    brewengineer Well-Known Member

    Jun 22, 2011
    Global climate change is real. Temperature fluctuations are part of that. Now Al Gore's global warming schtick is a bunch of crap. That dude doesn't know sh1t.
     
  10. OceanO

    OceanO Well-Known Member

    218
    Jul 23, 2013

    think Michelle lets Barack drink or burn weed? i hope so. Old E 40's? he does look stoned at press conferences sometimes. completely sober people shouldn't be trusted
     
  11. mushdoc

    mushdoc Well-Known Member

    323
    Jan 30, 2013
    Of course climate change is real.It has been changing since the beginning of the time on this planet. That is why we have had periods of glacier advance and also periods that were much warmer than now. It just has nothing to do with carbon emission from humans. THAT is the con.
     
  12. brewengineer

    brewengineer Well-Known Member

    Jun 22, 2011
    Not really true. We are adding to the already unstable environment, which causes more extreme fluctuations. You will see more extremes in weather patterns too. That part of it is no scam. If it were a scam, 99% of all climatologists and environmental scientists in the world would have to be in on it, and that is just not happening. There is more profit in denying human influence. Anyone that sticks to the "global warming" story is a decade behind or misinformed. The planet is more active due to released carbon. No way around that.
     
  13. ClemsonSurf

    ClemsonSurf Well-Known Member

    Dec 10, 2007
    Ahhhh fluctuations.

    Reminds me of a good joke.

    An old Asian lady walks into the bank and she wants to exchange some of her money for US dollars. She handed the bank teller a wad of cash and he have her back $350. She says,"last month I give you dis same money and you give me $400, why you give me $350 now?!?"

    The teller says, "fluctuations".

    The old lady says, "oh yeah, fluc you white people too", and walks out.
     
  14. 252surfer

    252surfer Well-Known Member

    Dec 1, 2010
    ahahahahahaha
     
  15. Sandblasters

    Sandblasters Well-Known Member

    May 4, 2013
    i agree but i have to add that with our short history of human civilization, compared to the lifespan of earths climate change and weather forecasting will take thousands of years if not longer to perfect if its even possible. it is near impossible to predict what will happen next with a planet that's billions of years old. for all we know we might get 20foot waves next week with amazing conditions that happens once every 10,000 years. who knows what will, happen next nobody...
     
  16. archy 2.0

    archy 2.0 Well-Known Member

    Jul 5, 2012
    military personnel, union workers, shcool teachers, public workers, home depot employees, etc. all are drug tested. people who decide govt policy and decide to take us to war should all be drug tested too. John Insane McCain, John Silence of the Lambs Face Kerry, Bill Clinton, George Bush etc are all on some kind of drugs!
     
  17. archy 2.0

    archy 2.0 Well-Known Member

    Jul 5, 2012
    PJB I never said I had a "who da guy" feature in ESM, but the Hero Shot in ESM.
    Even if I told you my name you still will not know who I am unless you spent some time LB.
     
  18. mushdoc

    mushdoc Well-Known Member

    323
    Jan 30, 2013
    Sorry brew...I think we will have to agree to just disagree here.As far as the 99% goes,that is just not accurate. There is a significant number of experts that refute the entire carbon emission theory and some of them are the highest regarded in the field.There is no proof at all that the planet is more 'active'. And just from a pure science perspective...CO2 makes up such a tiny percentage of atmosphere that it can have very little affect on these issues. This is something that is purely political.
    Hey, don't get me wrong. I am all for keeping it clean and green. I just hate obvious manipulation.
     
  19. archy 2.0

    archy 2.0 Well-Known Member

    Jul 5, 2012
    Let us also not forget that plants live on sunlight water and, uhum CO2.
     
  20. brewengineer

    brewengineer Well-Known Member

    Jun 22, 2011
    Very nice.