I'm getting me some Obamacare

yea, I have no faith in any governing body, UN included. I also think the garden co-op pres is getting a lil big for her britches....

and everyone YOU DO HAVE CONTROL. TAKE IT. Do small local things and make yourself valuable skill-wise. (welding, electric, write code, garden, woodwork, etc etc) Empires crumble, its a rule, clever resourceful people prosper, others do not

 

I hear you, and it's not in your control or my control, but it is in our population's control (to an extent). If you and I don't care, it's no big deal. The problems arise when a large portion of the population gives up.

Let's hope we don't have to deal with it.

 

That much we can agree on Zrich. Till then, let's get ready for some Cane swell, cause it's coming

 

I like to drive unlicensed, unregistered, unisnsured(watch your kids, I'm usually drunk), without a seatbelt, while I go pick up three hookers, to build an addition to my house without a building permit(it's ok I watched that Tim Allen show), while I snort bathsalts that I bought tax free, while I laugh at my unemployed police officer neighbor who's food poisoned due to no food regulations as he sells skunky lemonade from his driveway without a license, as his customers cross the street without aid of a pedestrian law, while down-the-block a house burns to the ground unimpeded, as an untrained community based "fire department" can't get down the road due to impassable maintenence conditions, as an untrained pilot crashes his latest plane into the woods, as hunters randomly shoot at varmits routinely missing, sending bullets haphazardly into adjacent houses(duck!), while the local "warlords" seize another property(imminent domain) and have their way with my sister, as her AIDS is just bothering-the-heck out of her since her pills aren't up to par anymore and her "doctor" got his certifications from Devry's online medical school................


Of course South Park has already satirized these visions of no government and such. If the government ceased to exist, people would create exactly the same thing to meet societal needs......and power and money always corrupts.......

And you can change things........if you can organize a good portion of our 300 million people - many of whom don't agree with you....or him.......or her aboot anything............

There's too many people on this planet. Where's a Rosa Crucian when you need them?

 

Putting the established system/abuse of power aside, I personally think this is the biggest problem. And at the rate the global population is going, there's just no turning back.

 

wow, just like. wow.

300 million cant be organized, culturally Americans are anarchists, I can elaborate if you like. Small communities (with their own set of voluntary rules) are whats best

as an allegory to governance, I will use agriculture. Factory farming is a mess, lots of chems, subsidies, and it depletes the soil in the long run........ the more labor intensive small scale ag works better in the long run (better for soil, less chems used etc)

its more work for both (small scale ag and self governance), but if you want to rely on some mythical benevolent gvt to take care of things, you are waiting for a monster to eat you

Sure, trust a the gvt, just ask a NATIVE american how that went for them

 

NOT MY WORDS:
Americans, culturally, are anarchists. Few Americans realize this. Most Americans have a false understanding of the term "anarchism." However, upon examining the beliefs of your average American, you will find that most Americans:
• do not trust leaders
• do not trust government
• wish to be left alone
• value their privacy
• think of themselves as independent from society
• do not believe that there is a systemic solution to their problems
• believe that others should be free to do what they choose, provided they do so in private and do not harm others
While it is undeniable that political culture in the United States often speaks to the opposite of the above list, it is also undeniable that most Americans register as neither Democrat or Republican and most Americans do not vote. Thus, despite the political culture, most Americans choose not to participate in it. This is not only due to their belief that the American political system is hopeless, but also is due to the cultural clash between the wider culture and the political culture.
Any attempt to organize large numbers of Americans into a single political movement will fail. Any attempt to create an organization led by a strong group of leaders will fail. Americans reject submersion into the collective. In a sense, Americans are anti-collectivists.
American political culture is not ideological. Politicians attempt to draw ideological distinctions between the two major parties, but these distinctions are a matter of splitting hairs. The only significant difference between the two political parties is the degree of compassion represented by the rhetoric of the two parties. Compassion is not a political concept. Compassion is an attitude. Thus, the two parties differ, primarily, in attitude and not ideology.
Despite this, there remain two political parties. One is prompted to ask "why?" If each party is basically the same, with respect to ideology, why do they not merge into one party? The answer to this question is best found in viewing each political party according to its true nature. American political parties are, for all intents and purposes, organized crime units. American political parties have more in common with the Mafia than they have with their counterparts in more democratic societies. Like Mafia, each political party competes for control of territory in order to maximize the benefit to their business constituency. Like Mafia, the political parties attempt to mold the system to maintain their positions and access to resources. Like Mafia, the political parties force the average citizen to pay "protection" under the threat of violence (taxes). Like Mafia each political party uses the "protection" money collected for its own advantage.
By defining our political system in terms of the "majority" and the "opposition," our Constitution enshrines this two mafia system into law. Each Mafia passes laws to exclude new comers from the game while focusing the rest of its energy in destroying the other Mafia.
Thus, any resistance movement that chooses to become an organization is in competition with these Mafiosi. The deck is stacked and the power of the state, wielded by these organized crime units known as the Democratic and Republican parties, will waste the time and resources of any newcomer. A newcomer can only succeed by rejecting the political system, draining its resources, and undermining the rule of the state.
In some societies, dissidents become heroes. In American society dissidents are systematically slandered, libeled, harassed, and villainized. If they become successful, they are murdered (e.g. Martin Luther King, Malcolm X). In the American experience, movements that look to leaders are decapitated. Leaders are a liability, not an asset.
Organizations can be (and are) infiltrated. Organizations can be taxed. Organizations have legal responsibility. Organizations have membership lists and lists are wonderful tools for the oppressor. Organizations take on a life of their own. They struggle to exist and their continued existence takes priority over their mission. Organizations attract opportunists, power mongers, and attention seekers. Organizations tend to exploit their rank and file for the benefit of their inner circle. Disorganizations share none of these defects.
Bureaucracy cannot comprehend disorganization. Disorganization is invisible. The asymmetry of the relationship between organization and disorganization favors disorganization. Organization depends upon planning. Planning requires predictability. Disorganization cannot be predicted. This leaves organization at a disadvantage.
Organization requires a supply chain. Supply chains can be disrupted. Disorganization depends only upon the resources of its members. Supply chains that do not exist cannot be eliminated.
Disorganized movements rely upon swarming. Swarms are difficult to defend against. If you cut a swarm in half, you have two swarms. If you eliminate one of the resulting swarms, you still have a swarm. Disorganization breeds. Organization grows. The many and dispersed are a more difficult target than the large and concentrated.
Organizations takes their steps by design. If the design is flawed, the organization fails. Disorganization relies not upon design but upon evolution. The motivating notions of disorganization are memes. Memes evolve and memes compete. This process improves the motivating notions of disorganization. This process produces multiple courses of action. While some may fail, others are likely to succeed. Taken as a whole, disorganization is more likely to succeed.

 

So we break this country into ......ahh states?

Or cities of populations under a million.........or do we go smaller.........?

The Native Americans should have had a centralizing government

God, I feel like I'm watching The Hippy Drum Circle episode.

Your ideas might have worked back in the 1600's.....for awhile.....maybe......

Dude, in the 1960's young, forward thinking people with visions of utopia set out into the wilderness to form their own communities. Within a year they all fell apart, and these people became yuppies in San Francsico or moved to Humboldt County to grow weed to sell to the yuppies in San Francsico.

Oh yo, you keep saying you can support, deconstruct or elaborate these ideas of yours(or others), but you never do.

As I said before, set-up your own community in some wild land of America, you'll have little government interference, and if you can maintain twenty people for a year, I'll buy into it all....a little......maybe......

So Alawaidedidy Al Mohammed Zuchinni launches a biological attack on your area..............Who you going to look for for help?

Ahhh idealists.......but I give them credit for dreaming and trying........This is about as good as it gets. People have been around for awhile. You aren't the first to have this ideology.

I do admire your convictions and dedication and tenacity..........ok, I said months ago I wouldn't get involved in political discourse on here anymore.......so y'all have a good time. Don't bring out the guns. We all know real social change only happens through violent means.........

Namaste b!tches.........

 

I'm late to this thread, but PJB, you are consistently and sorely lacking any understanding of what Libertarians / and Anarchists want/believe/wish to advocate..., you are reciting the highly scripted and highly filtered non-sense that the LIBERAL/CONSERVATIVE/Corporatist media allow .. let me repeat ALLOW you/and I to receive. Varying Forms of mass media were there all along through-out history to sway the "consumer classes" or bourgeois parts of society to go along with whatever government OR IDEA OF HOW TO GOVERN that was in power. Mass Media is the pacifier of the masses. I can go in to further detail about how mass media is a PRODUCT that one CONSUMES so it is tailored to THE CONSUMER,,,but its probably nothing you or anyone else here would care to read about on a surf forum. cheers!

 

PJB says we should divide up geographically based on some false paradigm of red/blue, then I suggest separating based on voluntary ideas....and he tries to shat on that idea? the cognitive dissonance is overflowing with that one.

Forcing me into a collective is violence, PJB is a violent monster. He could change though! Everyone grows every day!
and I did elaborate, you didnt read it? I guess it hurts to have facts alter your worldview

see you next sept PJB, I will be scoring the best ones off 3rd street rights, is the sand bar is still there? that sweet little triangle off the tip?

hmm tips and triangle, I gotta go find wifey now....

 

Oh one last thing.....

Wow 15 pages and no " HEY KEEP IT SURFING RELATED" complaints yet. That's a record..........

And BabyG any other government you could install in this country would turn into the same thing as what we presently have in a few months........

And yeah, you know what? I barely read any of youse guys's stuff !! I just went on instinct. I have no idea what I'm talking aboot, but I know it's aboot some utopian idealist stuff that will never come to fruition.

Hey somebody tell these dudes aboot MarijuanaLand............That's going to be my own island....a cold island, not tropical, that I act as the " Nicest Dictator in History." Not my words.........

 

3rd St. - ahhh man that whole town is too crowded with government "Yes Men." Jeez, they even subscribe to surfing politics.......Why the Truck would you come back here? This place gets worse year-after-year.

Tips and triangles.......dude, that's totally perverted.

 

It's quasi-private/public ... it still gets tax money, maybe less than before, but it's still tainted by the fact that that money had to come from some private individual in the first place in the form of taxes.

 

PJB I am honored to bat around this stuff with you or whoever is reading along! Thanks for playing nice everyone!

 

aaaannnnnnd its gone!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DT7bX-B1Mg

So I guess we are done here?

 

BIG MISTAKE calling what you just described above "Capitalism". What you described is Fascism or more commonly termed "CORPORATISM" . There can be no true Capitalism without a Free Market. We have nothing close to a Free Market alive anywhere in the world. a misunderstanding of Economics is the voting-man's achilles heel! and our corrupt politicians know THIS well!

 

The USPS in the 1800s used strong arm tactics to create a monopoly on mail distro... there were several private mail delivery firms thruout history here's the story of how just one of those WARS against private mail service went down : http://www.lysanderspooner.org/STAMP3.htm

 

Lysander was the man:
If we lend a hundred millions sterling to the queen and parliament of England, it will enable them to murder twenty, fifty, or a hundred thousand people in England, Ireland, or India; and the terror inspired by such wholesale slaughter, will enable them to keep the whole people of those countries in subjection for twenty, or perhaps fifty, years to come; to control all their trade and industry; and to extort from them large amounts of money, under the name of taxes; and from the wealth thus extorted from them, they (the queen and parliament) can afford to pay us a higher rate of interest for our money than we can get in any other way. Or, if we lend this sum to the emperor of Austria, it will enable him to murder so many of his people as to strike terror into the rest, and thus enable him to keep them in subjection, and extort money from them, for twenty or fifty years to come. And they say the same in regard to the emperor of Russia, the king of Prussia, the emperor of France, or any other ruler, so called, who, in their judgment, will be able, by murdering a reasonable portion of his people, to keep the rest in subjection, and extort money from them, for a long time to come, to pay the interest and the principal of the money lent him.
And why are these men so ready to lend money for murdering their fellow men? Solely for this reason, That such loans are considered better investments than loans for purposes of honest industry. They pay higher rates of interest; and it is less trouble to look after them. This is the whole matter.
The question of making these loans is, with these lenders, a mere question of pecuniary profit. They lend money to be expended in robbing, enslaving, and murdering their fellow men, solely because, on the whole, such loans pay better than any others. They are no respecters of persons, no superstitious fools, that reverence monarchs. They care no more for a king, or an emperor, than they do for a beggar, except as he is a better customer, and can pay them better interest for their money. If they doubt his ability to make his murders successful for maintaining his power, and thus extorting money from his people in future, they dismiss him unceremoniously as they would dismiss any other hopeless bankrupt, who should want to borrow money to save himself from open insolvency.

 

I agree. This is called fraud. Fraud should be taken more seriously. It would be taken more seriously in a world with a functional Free Market (on paper at least). In a world of Socialized costs and privatized benefits you get what we have today. Rampant Fraud

 

Pumpmaster, I think once you read what was just written above a couple more times it'll hit you that it's not that complicated. All the things you point out define us as LAWLESS. We are Law-Less. We are a Law-LESS country, run by Immoral LAW bending-on -a-whim people. When it sinks in it all becomes clearer. But we rarely stop these days to let any RATIONAL thought SINK in...so stay busy if that helps! Surfing helps me stay positive... good luck bro.