Technique -- front side bottom turn

Great thread and I'm interested in seeing thoughtful responses to this. I'm not one at all to be schooling others on surfing technique so I'll only comment on mine and offer it up for correction. I think in general, technique from one surfer to the next has a lot of variability as to "what is right" (instead on a continuum rather than hard and fast rules) and should be looked more as "what works" for differing types of athletes. Why do I think so? Because there are many mechanisms, body parts, and forces at play when we are making those bottom turns. While they're all interconnected on a kinetic chain, one surfer's powerhouse may reside in his hips while another has exceptional upper body explosiveness. The "style" will not look the same across different athletic representations of the same skill.

I also heard "front hand behind the heel rail" from day one. The Surf Simply guys are big on that. However, if it were to truly stay behind the heel rail at all times I'd think we'd lack the inertia of the pendulum our arms offer the bottom turn kinetic chain, especially if we are looking to take a dramatic one. My gathering is that there can be variance in where and how the arms are thrown and placed and the need to return to center after the throw is always there. You see different surfers executing their bottom turn differently yet they're all still effective bottom turns so the logical assessment is that there's more than one way to skin a cat.

You mention the front hand behind heel rail on backside turns being valuable and that's something I'd agree with and would say that a frontside turn will have different needs. Side note, do you guys also vary your elbow/wrist turn from front to backside? You may not be consciously doing it but still do it. I know that when I turn backside, I'm giving a "thumbs down" with the front hand with palm facing the turn and that differs when I go front. Also, do you guys consider the front hand the "lead hand" in both cases? I see how it could be argued otherwise.

Again, great topic bro. I know that several may chime in with the "just go out and surf" mantra, but leave a valid debate of this to the more kinesthetic learners as there are different learning styles across a population.

 

the best way not to suck at surfing is to surf. not think so much and let your body do as its going to do. you think to much.

 

^Agree 100%. This fall I kept popping up with my stance too narrow going front side, but when I went backside, my feet and turning are way more powerful and balanced. Basically going right I'd be like "yew look at this face what should i do on this beauty," then I'd turn right off the top of the face! I'd get really down. But then a left would come and i don't have time to think and i surf way more fluid. So, i try and watch vids when i can't sleep and then just surf next time out. Im a completely different surfer when i "just go," then when im stuck in my own head. Overthinking ruins my day in and out of the water.

 

I've always coached kids on how to bottom turn like this... prefacing that your head starts every turn... your head goes around first, then your shoulders, then your hips... your feet and board will follow. At that same time your shoulders are coming around, your unweighting the board as you start to compress. Once your hips start coming round you start to press with your legs and shift your weight slightly to your back foot. By the time your knees and feet follow, your driving off your fins and inside rail and extending your legs all the way.

 

keep your eyes on the hips...
http://www.dailysurfvideos.com/videos/anastasia-ashley-slow-motion-clip

 

Holy **** LB why u gotta do that to me..

 

yeah no doubt matty we go into the water to relax and have a good time no thinking necessary. @Agabinet yeah no doubt dude you wont find the answers here they lie with in you. your body will naturally start to experiment the better you get and start doing things. if i paddle out and think about trying to do airs which im starting to do it will never happen, now if i dont think about it ill fly off a few lips. just get into the moment and let the ocean guide you.

 

Watching vids always helped me.

Iam amazed how much easier for me going back side bottom turn followed by going vert and smacking the lip and over rotating the board...love doing that, but can't get the frontside bottom turn followed by hitting the lip hard. Strange, but I prefer backside ripping cause I just have problems frontside. For me, front side for tubing, pumping down the line for speed is about all I can do with an occasional tail slide...but prefer hard bottom to top turns going backside. Easier to put your body into it.

Wish I could surf a point beak to give me some practice. These freakin beach breaks just doesn't give me a long enough line most times. One or two maneuvers and it's over.

 

All turns come from the hips/ankles/knees/core with your head looking where you're going. The upperbody should be relaxed and quiet. It should simply serve to counterbalance your movements, says famous surf coach to the pros Nick Carroll in his holy grail of surf technique book " the ultimate guide to surfing your best"

Side note, its almost impossible to get a copy of this daughter after book.

 

Man, not only my left arm but my left shoulder and my left nipple are over my heel side at the bottom of my turn and I twist completely to the opposite as I come up the face. But I have a somewhat strange unorthodox style that to be honest I hate watching on video. As I'm pumping down the line my feet are perpendicular to the stringer and my torso is completely turned with my shoulder and nipple over my heel at the same time, facing forward. I hate it but I'm too old to change I guess.

 

I can't believe Emass didn't say this... Get a carver. It's surfing, it really is. I had plateaued for about a year for various reasons that boiled down to less water time than usual plus I always surfed a SB like a LB. Your arms play a big part when you're pumping and putting in a carving turn but everything else from surfing is incorporated in a carver too. Your heel to toe and front and back foot weight transfer, unweighting, bending at the knees not the back all come in to play.

Other than that have you considered trying to be one with the wave?

 

The reason for keeping your arm on opposite sides is not only for balance but also so that you are prepared for anything that may unexpectedly happen IMO. If you drop in and turn with both arms on one side of the board, look up, and that mellowish lip has now shot up off the bar and is coming down on your head, you probably wont be able to change direction to avoid the lip.


As far as people doing it both ways I don't really pay attention, nor am I that great of a surfer, but in my experience when you're making a REALLY hard turn on certain waves both arms just end up on one side. Though usually its fine keeping them on opposite sides. If you learn to keep them on opposite sides, you'll do it without even thinking.

 

Hahaha, you'd better work on your tan lines first! And make sure it's a bikini and not a fullsuit and white helmet combo. Folks in this attire have no idea what a bottom turn is.

That vid LBCrew posted is great in two ways: 1)Anastasia's a$$ 2) Perfect depiction of a FS bottom turn to attack the lip.

Now, I'm going to say some of the same things already mentioned but in a different way and maybe add a couple more elements for your paralysis of analysis pleasure:

1) Your bottom turn depends on what you intend to do after it. A bottom turn into a snap is different from a bottom turn to round house cutback. To make a tight arc so you can hit the lip vertically you're using more body torque, more back-footed and less rail and much quicker--it's more on the pivot side or as close as you can get without scrubbing off all your momentum. Plus, you are essentially losing most of your momentum in a vertical snap and gaining it back after the snap as you drop back in.

A bottom turn to a cutback and/or big gouging turn will be more drawn out, way more front footed and using as much rail as you can. You are trying to gain centripetal force, maintain it, then transition it to the other direction. You are using your boards flex and foil more in this case, so you benefit more from spring back and such. That said, your upper body will be going through similar motions but at different speeds.


2) Your head is the top of a pendulum. You might already be thinking along these lines, but remember this: it's a pendulum operating in a 3-dimension axis. Often beginners tend to conceptualize surfing mechanics as if they occur on a 2-d, X and Y axis--not utilizing the z axis, which is where you gain centripetal force, more momentum and the like. This is why you see beginners surfing with the frankenstien stance trying to turn their board by swinging their arms around, stiff backed and even straighter legs. To get a visualization of what I'm talking about, go watch a good skater in a bowl. Watch how they gain and maintain speed, you'll notice that their feet are traveling over 4x the distance their heads are.


3) Knees: USE THEM! As LBCrew stated, you're changing how much you're bending as you go through the turn. Really, it just takes practice in this regard. This is where most of your coil-up and release comes from. I always suggest starting out by bending your knees TOO MUCH and work from there--not the other way around. This is also where you will find out if your legs and core are weak. No matter how much you try, none of this is going to work out if you have weak legs and lower body. I would imagine your legs are supporting close to 3x your body weight at the apex of a serious bottom turn--something to think about.


4)Carver or any other surfskate as Clemmy mentioned: Get one, ride it..... a lot.


5)Don't over-think it..... Practice, practice, practice.