'American' way of life

For the Hitler Stuff, I mean, you can trying and argue a point by finding some financial technicalities that link us to him, just like Bin Laden... But when the nation as a whole finally realizes the injustices going on, we step in. I mean, an entire nation put Hitler into power. All of Europe just sat there until things got so insane that we all were like, WTF is going on? How on earth are you people not doing anything about this... Bam, we step in and handle the mother fu**in business. Doesn't matter how we got to that point, what matters is we did the right thing and saved MILLIONS of lives that would have also been lost...

The Pearl Harbor reference, I am not sure what you mean??? Was it allowed? I mean, the Japanese snuck in and Kamikazied the hell out of all of our troops. And we all knew what happened next.

Nagasaki, Hiroshima.... Game. Set. Match. One of the worst things EVER done in the history of mankind, but if that step was not taken, the world as we know it would be a much more f'ed up place....

I won't argue the Vietnam thing. I am not saying that was a good idea. I am just hypothetically explaining how people just like me end up in a jungle, looking down someone else's gun barrel.

 

Dude, so we were going to stop Hitler with baloons and teddy bears? I mean, I think it was a couple of Atom Bombs that ended the way, not a hands-around-the-world snuggle fest...

Look at the history of the world bro. Murder. Mayhem since the beginning of time... The only way to beat a monster, is with a bigger, badder one.

Without all the wars that we have been in, you and I would not be having this conversation. It would be in German and we would have a swastika for a flag...

I just don't know what you think the solution is. We have always had to fight and kill for our freedom, so has everyone else. Why don't you look at the past couple thousand years in Europe and see all that has transpired. Thats life.

You are of the "I will lock myself in my house with my guns and defend myself"... Yeah man, when the evil empire united and they send a few thousand troops into your neighborhood with tanks, good luck "defending yourself" without military or police...

Without cops protecting you and all of us, you wouldn't last a week.

 

Where are you going for lunch? Costa Rica? Cause there aint no waves out there...

And I think you should take your own advice on that last statement...

We can agree to disagree, but if you are such a "Critical Thinker", please kind sir, PLEASE paint a picture of the world and what it would be like today if we had disbanded our Military, let's say, 250 years ago....

Please, tell me what the world would be. What language would we speak? What would have happened to Slavery? What flag would be flying here? Confederate? Japanese? British? German? Would there be a Jewish person alive in the world by this day in age?

So rather than bashing authority in general, please explain to us how this dream world would operate...

Its one thing to hate war. I hate war. But this is supposed to be a conversation about REALITY. So in order for any of your thoughts are arguments to make sense, you have to present the rest of us with your alternative.

Just saying, don't join the Military. Don't be a cop... Okay, so then what SHOULD we have done? What SHOULD we do? Since you have it all figured out and stuff....

And another thing. I never joined the military for a reason. I don't buy into it as a system for ME. I would like to think if sh** hit the fan and the country needed me, I would go. But when I took the ASVAP or whatever and they wanted to put me in a nuclear submarine, I simply said, no thanks, I will go to college....

It's the principal of it all that I am arguing, this is nothing personal to me. I also talked my sister out of joining the Navy, cause it's my sister, and I don't want her risking her life, while there are other people willing to do so. But those other people get my utmost respect. I would do it if I had to, but I don't want to have death on my conscience anymore than anyone else... So if they don't need me to kill, I will be happy not to.

 

I can agree with that. Can't imagine what it was like leading up to that decision. Probably some hate involved. But it was the most effective "WAR ENDER" ever. Talk about people throwing the white flag up. It was horrible, but effective. Dropping it on some remote island or out in the middle of no where would not have had the same effect. The military and media would have down played it probably, eventually causing us to do it anyway. They could have setup more death missions and taken out tens of thousands of our troops because they were taking advantage of our kindness. "Ohh, those silly american's are bluffing, sure they will bomb an empty field, but they would never bomb our cities"

 

Now, hopefully I will not derail this thread.... But, below is a link of the 200 girls that were taken by terrorists in Nigeria. The Nigerian govenerment has yet to find them. The international community is being critical, thinking that they may not have the resources to recover the 200 girls, that this scum bag leader says he is going to sell on the market, or worse....

Sooooo..... If I was in the white house, I would have had the choppers gassed up yesterday, with Seal Teams 1 through 15 loading up every piece of hardware they have available, fly them over there and start putting anything linked to "Boko Haram" in a body bag.... I know it's not our business, but if we have the resources to go save these CHILDREN, we move in, we move fast and we move hard... We use all of our intel. All the resources we got... Throw the kitchen sink at em. Once we get the children back, we assist the Nigerian government in complete annihilation of these people.

These are Al Qaeda trained factions... You can look at the world how ever you want, but if we let organizations like this gain ground, killing people with complete disregard and we read about it, know about it, and don't do sh** about it? What happens next? Those pieces of sh** are over here, taking our kids. Killing our people... Then it matters?

Go take all these dudes out. Every last one of them with reckless abandon, after you save the girls of course....

These dudes are bat sh** crazy!!!!! Allah wants me to sell them? are you fu**ing kidding me?

http://www.cnn.com/2014/05/05/world/africa/nigeria-abducted-girls/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

 

You. Are. bat. ****. Crazy.

 

You need to study a bit more history on the WWII thing. We were killing tens of thousands of Japanese every day, just using conventional carpet bombing. We would always drop warning leaflets, which is more than we got from the Pearl Harbor attackers. The strategy for dropping the nukes on two cities was based around the fact that carpet bombing didn't seem to stop Japan from continuing the fight. Right or wrong, annihilation of two cities helped force a Japanese surrender. However, it wasn't that action alone that did it. We were already wearing down their forces thanks to conventional bombing.
You will get no argument from me that we have no reason to be in Iraq. We do act like world police far too often, and it creates a lot of enemies. I am generally anti-war, but I don't think there was any way out of WWII, that didn't require violence. All that aside, calling Vets murderers is a pretty ignorant.

 

I guess it doesn't really matter, but I noticed in another thread that you mentioned the waves in NS being good. By NS, do you mean Nova Scotia? You live in Canada? If you are US born, living in Canada, I will at least commend you for sticking to your beliefs and not being a part of a society that you have that much issue with.

That pineapples and bananas reference is either way over my head, or I have no idea what you were insinuating there. He was fed up with the US military and moved elsewhere? He was really growing weed? I dunno.

And brother man, I ain't trying being a ****. This is just friendly chit chat... ya know? I am always looking for different perspectives on life and every now and then, even on a surf forum, people have a way of slightly changing my outlook or beliefs if they share information or ideas that I may have never thought of or been exposed to. I am not trying to kill the messenger, I'm just asking questions. Cause I'm interested.

 

amen mis,I salute you!!!

false pretenses,i know them as false flags and its how every single war started.america did everything to cause japan to throw the first punch,sanctions,liquidating their American assets,putting japs in concentration camps,yes concentration camps.

another point id like to add with ww2,u people do know RUSSIA and Russia alone stopped the Nazis,not America,not Britain,not france.when Germany headed east into Russia,russians kicked their arse.Russia saved the jews.

Vietnam was based off the gulf of Tonkin incident,in which America said,the veitcong blew up a ship or some bs.I wont get into detail,itll last for 20 pages.

ok onto the grand finale,911.im not going to start the whole conspiracy bs on how the towers fell,i seen the 2nd plane hit from 1&9 crossing into jersey city(the smaller bridge parallel with the Pulaski).i thought it was the end of the world.the thing that baffles me with 911,otherthan EVERYTHING,but if u watched the news youd know all the highjackers were Saudis,from Saudi Arabia.where do we get our oil from,saudi Arabia,who is in the carylyle group,bush sr and Saudi Arabia lol.I swear talkin about it is like something from a fairy tale.who funded 911,a Saudi prince but the commission report listed it as "little practical signifance"..anyway what got me was why did we invade Iraq and Afghanistan?afghanistan had a somewhat value excuse because that's where Osama allegedly was.iraq was revenge for saddam threatening bush sr during desert storm.

I laugh at the fox critics and everyone else who talks about Benghazi.benghazi<another funny story,do u know what we were doing in Benghazi?getting the arms back from the rebels we supplied to overthrow ghadaffi.where were u people during the real 911.

that's all for now,feel free to tell me how stupid conspiracy nut I am,and heres a simple minded video for u simple people about 911
its quite funny
[video=youtube;yuC_4mGTs98]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuC_4mGTs98[/video]

 

Not taking sides in this, however, to unilaterally assign "murder" to soldiers may not be correct. The words murder and kill are not equivalent. From what I understand, their current legal use is actually derived from Old Testament law. A Google of "murder vs killing definition" helps distinguish the difference.

Key differences from the Hebrew language is “murder” literally means “the intentional, premeditated killing of another person with malice.” , where as killing becomes murder when (and only when) it is not properly justified, and the justifications are clear: you can use whatever force necessary to protect your own life from a hostile aggressor, or to save the life of an innocent from such imminent, life-threatening danger. The difference between the legal or illegal use of deadly force is really a matter of motive, intent and justification.

Taken from:
http://coldcasechristianity.com/2013/the-difference-between-killing-and-murdering/

Other resources purvey the same idea.

 

anybody that thinks theres no way 911 was a planned thing,look at this from the 1960s,operation northwoods.

long story short,america was going to paint an American airliner to look like a Cuban airliner and blow an American airliner up and throwing us into war with cuba.but luckily the greatest president jfk blew the lid on that one when he refused to sign it.now its on public records so anybody can view it.

http://www2.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/northwoods.pdf

 

ok last

Ukraine

[video=youtube;kvxgkIIIVio]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvxgkIIIVio&feature=youtu.be[/video]

this is a prime example on why we cant arm foreign countries.watch around the 9 minute mark to around 13,where u see local Ukrainians who are pro Russia stop the ukranian soldiers and take away their arms.this happened already in Libya and Syria.we do not want our technology in the wrong hands.

and for anyone who wants to stone me about 911,just know I know quite a few people who passed.my best friends father was injured in the 93 attack,and killed on 911.my brother who worked in one of the offices who took the day off because he was sick,had to go to atleast 35 of his coworkers funerals after 911.i am not a conspiracy winger,nor an American hater.i just seek the truth and the truth was never put out.we should've done a hell of a lot more to prevent 911.i do believe it was Islamic extremists who carried it out,but the current regime(bush admin) knew about it and could've stopped it,but where would we be today without 911? a helluva lot better u ask me

 

By the way, I do not think those that enlist do so with the intent to murder. Most may be looking at a "career choice" with the intent to "protect your lives from a hostile aggressor, or to save the lives of the innocent from such imminent, life-threatening danger." It is unfortunate that some of the "theaters of operation" may not have these intents, or they may be tarnished or polluted with other agendas (i.e. greed, power, etc.). But the soldier does not have an option, but only to execute his orders in the most upright manner possible.

 

Man, even though it's flat it's real nice out and I'm gonna go hit the skate park and step the game up even further to some ska punk tracks. You guys should take a similar break from the madness in this tread! It's only Monday brahs.

 

i typically refuse to get sucked into these discussions but i have to on this one. As a combat veteran of two wars and a retired douche bag, ya'lls adjective, not mine, some of you read too much and comprehend too little. The simplistic overview you have of the world is breathtaking. While the war in Iraq was the primary reason i left the military, retired, I still believe to go without a military is insane. I will neither apologize or feel belittled by some person that was/is either intimidated or too lazy to participate in defending this nation. As far as being some guy that spent his day looking for a reason to violate someone's constitutional rights, I was trying to protect them. And yes I did catch the robbers and the murderers, but I also stopped some for just being stupid. Lets be honest here, if the police didn't exist there would be some serious mass chaos. If there was not a military I have no idea what what our county would be called or if we would speak some other language, but be sure of this; you probably would control your destiny much less. As for being isolationist, won't work. Thats where we were just prior to both world wars. You can cross the atlantic in five hours, and talk to anyone in the world instantly. It's just too connected now. This is supposed to be a democracy, but at some point in the recent past we, and I emphasize we, surrendered control to the very wealthy, who decide policy like they are playing risk. One last thing, one of the best things about this country is that all of these ideas and opinions are allowed to be stated/voiced, but just because you could does not mean you're right.

 

Thank you Flying Eye for your post and service, and thanks to all the SI vets.

I'm with Emass, time to take a spin on the Carver.

 

I will try and keep this response somewhat brief, by my standards anyway. My basic theory on 9/11 is completely opposite of yours. Do I think over many years, we in some round about way had affiliations with those involved. Yes. The paper trail is there. Do I think that ANYONE within our government or military ranks had something to do with this? Absolutely not. Why? Because life isn't a movie. There would have to be hundreds, if not thousands of individuals exposed to that "inside information" about a conspiracy of that scale. Im talking about people just falling off the face of the earth cause "they knew too much".... So no, if anything this is a classic example of the US getting caught with our pants down.... Furthermore, if you think that Al Qaeda or any of these factions that LIVE on western hate would sit, to this day on a pot of gold, you are crazy... If you think they wouldn't be the first ones pointed at our leadership and our government to expose them to the world? I mean, come on... It would have been all over the media within hours... No one within the government ranks knew about 911.... Bin Laden would have exposed that immediately.

That is the thinking that goes along with people's opinion of GW Bush... They watch too many movies. They imagine Bush, sitting there with a glass of scotch and a cigar, peering out his window, deep in thought of what to do next. After hours of deliberation, he walks over, along to hit RED BUTTON, he presses this button and BAM, we now have all our troops invading Iraq... All because he is mad over his dads beef. People ACTUALLY think that we went after WMDs because of what the President thought? Come on guys. You do know that we have THOUSANDS of the most qualified, intelligent people working for our government as advisers... If you think George Bush made all this up, you are disillusion. The debriefing and intel came from all over our military and the world's most trusted advisers. So while a hundred guys sat in the room, with about 1000 more on a secure line conference call, then the decsion was made to go to war... Thats how things work... And if you think that people in that room were in on 911, well, Im sorry to hear that. This day in age, you can't keep a cat in the bag of that magnitude. I know it makes people feel better to think that way...

9/11 was simply a fu** up by our defense systems. They outsmarted us by using remedial tactics and it worked. They took over planes with a freaking box cutter. Meanwhile, we are using all this elaborate technology to monitor them overseas, meanwhile, they are flying planes into Manhattan.

Im just saying, 9/11 wasn't some government coverup about oil and money. It was a colossal security fu** up. We felt the same way Bin Laden did when he realized Seal Team 6 crept up on him... It was just blatent oversight.