Shinnecock Tribe wants to kick out the richers from the East End...

I am sure most of the guys on this site will jump all over this and agree with you to no end....

But as for what I shared, I feel like I really didn't give my thoughts or opinions about the situation at all. I just pointed out the facts of our world history as a reminder that the US history is no different than every other edge of the planet. In 2014, I would like to think that we, as a WORLD, will not tolerate such behavior on a large scale, but with that being said, in a lot of cases (I.E. The middle east, Ukraine etc) sometimes people have to fight for their land and sometimes, the rest of the world can't bail them out. If two parties are willing to kill each other over money or land, and both sides are willing to do so, what are we supposed to do?

Again, my initial post was not really revealing of any sort of opinions, other than, the PAST is the PAST. Sure, the Native American's got the short end of the stick. I don't think anyone is arguing that point. But every single one of us can trace our roots back far enough to cite oppression and bloodshed and our land being stolen and our people getting killed and generations having to fight and die for this. We can ALL trace back to that, whether on this continent, or in Europe or anywhere for that matter.

Give the guys the east end of NY. Good on em. I am fine with that. Will it happen? Of course not, but I have no beef with that....

There are just countless examples of oppression that every ethnicity has been through at one point or another. I mean, Native American's in this country traditionally owned slaves! I don't hear the NAACP calling them out.

It's 2014, the world is a different place. Less than 100 years ago, the world was still playing command and conquer. I hope we have all gotten over that. Apparently not... Iraq. Afghanistan... etc.

Just saying, thats all...

Slide on.

 

very good slashdog
Nasty Brutish Short!

Hobbes vs Locke it would seem
[video=youtube;X-buzVjYQvY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-buzVjYQvY[/video]

check out Fran Drescher going down on me at 1:43

 

You too MIS? bah bah Mr. Sheepie

 

so cause I side with Locke instead of hobbes I am sheep? or you salty cause I made fun of you?

hobbes's philosophy will have us all be cannibals, its an evolutionary dead-end for humanity

 

Just saying, I guess I should tap out of this conversation, because this is the inevitable result of ever non-surf related discussion on this site. I would like to think I have somewhat of an open mind with regards to listening to anyone else's opinion whether I agree with it or not, but around these parts, it's just a dead end. Same people, saying the same sh**. I think when I simply try and shed light on the "reality" of a certain subject, that somehow is interpreted as my outlook or opinion. Sure, in this imaginary, Utopian world, we will all live in peace and be happy and there will be no war, no police, no bloodshed... That is not a reality. That is an idea.

And yes, Hobbes' outlook is certainly a dead end.

 

MIS: You are the same guy that hurled insults at me for saying that the ISIS would kill every non-muslim on American soil if they could.... What did you call me for that again? Bitter, angry? I just don't understand your logic sometimes and why simple, truthful statements just get you all wound up.

I mean, WTF man? I want to know what you are smoking. Please send me some of that.

 

Not trying to vilify you for 'pointing out history.' But saying things like "It's the same now as it was one hundred years ago, cause Iraq and Afghanistan...' ignores many facts, facts that are encouraging of a developmental rather than fatalistic worldview. Consider the differences in literacy, infant mortality, life expectancy, sanitation, and quality of life. In the developed world, we are living vastly superior lives to those that we were faced with 100 years ago, in all of those categories. In the undeveloped world, they are facing many of the same exact issues today.

Now, you are correct in your observation that, throughout recorded human history, more highly developed societies and nations conquest over less developed ones. And you are correct that this still continues today; However, instead of total war of annihilation for food and land, we have remote resource extraction through multinationals like Siemens and Halliburton, in one-sided deals which financially favor the companies and the financial system that they dominate, through the strong handed deals of the IMF and the World Bank.

This of course sometimes takes place in conjunction with wars, like the two you mentioned, but with increasing frequency outside of wars.

It is also a FACT that democratized nations are far less likely to go to war with each other, and that "thirty years worth of statistical research has revealed that only two variables decrease human rights violations: political democracy and economic development" (Davenport and Armstrong 2003).

So, I see where you are coming from, and you are correct that, still today, the big powerful groups take from the less powerful groups.

So, yes, in our globalized world, imperialistic conquest has largely shifted to financial oppression through unilaterally beneficial resource extraction. HOWEVER, not in spite of this, but partially because of it, we in fact DO live in a less violent world today. Human beings ARE capable of a loftier existence than one of barbarian conquest, and economic development (health & education) and democratization (intellectual freedom & peace) are the keys to this existence.

I do not understand why you consistently equate our time in history to a much more brutal and violent time despite the very measurable developmental factors that PROVE that it is not so. I am not sure if it's an ingrained imperial-apologist thought strain, or an alternate common justification of the privileged, (Edit: or the fact that getting really good at surfing and providing for a family will leave little time for political query). But things are different, and they can be better. You should reflect a bit and ask if you want a better world for your daughter, her children, and their children. Especially seeing as how they will probably be Mexican.

(Additional Edit: Not trying to bash Zach or Zippy. No intention of being insulting; just trying to shed some light on the facts of a matter that I know very well. We all want a better world for little Zachita Maria Sanchez. I would rather she become a programmer than work in a food truck or field, even if great Grandpa Zach and drunk Uncle Zippy disagree with me. THINK OF THE CHILDREN. Not just YOUR children.)

 

Thank you for the response. So, yes, as a world, we have come a long way and we use financial oppression and tactics rather than total annihilation. This, as you mentioned, is a good thing. Far from perfect, but it is better than the alternative, and we have come a long way....

The reason I was bringing up the past, is because the conflict with the native american's is a thing of the past. It is hundreds or years in the past, back in a time, that again you mentioned, we were completely different, so the instances I mentioned should certainly be applicable to this Native American discussion. Even though this land was taken from the Natives, look at what happened next? As soon as we got here, we were forced to fight and die for this land, same as the Native American's did. That is just how things worked back then.

That is all I am saying. I am all for a better future, a more fair one, a more peaceful one. I am just saying to plan for the future, you have to look at the past, and the WORLD has a checked past, filled with blood. And the US is no where near the top of the list. We have our problems and we haven't been perfect, but we have been far less brutal and far more understanding in our ways that other "Developed" nations have been in recent memories.

 

I guess I am just saying, in the jacked up world that we live in, I haven't lost hope. I just hear so much hopelessness lately, in general and on this site, about how terrible our government is, about how terrible our president is, about how terrible our military is and how terrible our police are and how terrible wall street is and how terrible corporate america is.... And in a lot of ways, maybe the glass half empty crew is right. Maybe we up sh**'s creek without a paddle. I just have faith in humanity, albeit it not much. I have faith in our country... I guess I still have some kind of faith in people.

Regardless of my beliefs. Because behind every government, there are people. Behind every corporation, there are people. And I just truly believe, that for every terrible person in the government or corporation, there are 5 good ones. For every crooked cop, there are 20 legit ones. Nothing is perfect. And as long as there are good people, fighting the good fight, EVENTUALLY, the good will win.

I guess I am just a glass half full with regards to the outlook of our country. I see what is happening elsewhere in the world, in numerous places, and I think man, regardless of what petty sh** we argue about in our country, thank god that this is where I am. Thank god this is where my family is. Because we are light years ahead of a lot of other places with regards to human rights and everything that goes with it.... We have room to improve for sure, and we will continue to.

I may be a dog without a fight anymore, but I hope my daughter, in her youth will do something to help change this country and help people and make a difference.

 

I don't know what them Indians are so upset about. They make a ton of money off all the 7-Eleven's and gas stations, no?

 

[/QUOTE]

can you go more than one post without eating your feet?
first point: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonard_Peltier
its likely Leonard was innocent, but whats another injun in jail

you say the USA isnt that bad, but its the CIA who made those regimes that are bad. the US and CIA have been running coups and installing puppet gvts/dictators to facilitate resource removal for US corpos since WELL BEFORE the OSS first became CIA shortly after WW2, my god your lack of historical knowledge combined with your verbal diarrhea is absurd

finally, your daughter would have a better chance if her father wasnt so arrogant and clueless, you can work on that

 

can you go more than one post without eating your feet?

you say the USA isnt that bad, but its the CIA who made those regimes that are bad. the US and CIA have been running coups and installing puppet gvts/dictators to facilitate resource removal for US corpos since the OSS first became CIA shortly after WW2, my god your lack of historical knowledge combined with your verbal diarrhea is absurd[/QUOTE]

Not sure why you quoted that. I stand by those words.

You are just a tin foil hat wearing conspiracy theorist hiding on a rock in the middle of the pacific waiting for the aliens to invade. Your outlook on the real world is troubling and absurd.

You complain about the CIA. You complain about the COPS. You complain about the government. Yet, you never have ANY valid solutions to bring to the table. I mean, thanks for you insight master of the obvious.... Why don't you bring IDEAS to the table, rather than whining all the time about sh** that is out of your control. If you don't like our government, infiltrate it, change it. Because if you aren't willing to stand up and do anything about it, why are you crying?

 

calling somebody arrogant and clueless is pretty arrogant in itself...

 

fair enough pumpy, but his words in Native americans and apologizing for evil grinds my gears
lol first way to fix something is to point out and ADMIT there is a problem, neither of which Zach has done as of yet. keep apologizing for evil, I am sure it will go away.

 

Yeah homie, let's not go giving each other personal life advice either. You don't know me. Period. Cause if I form an opinion of you based on the nonsense you always spew, I would envision David Koresh living on a chicken farm with a bunch of other lunatics. So, I will not base my real life opinions of you on that foolish garbage you are always talking about

 

not touching that but will say that taking for one group to give to another should not be condoned.

As for Cops, I hate them but will offer up this solution:http://theantimedia.org/5-simple-ways-to-fix-us-police-departments/

 

very good pumpy, thats on point, accountability is crucial

and zach while there are chickens, I am not good looking enough to gain followers

 

Dude, what???? Don't be putting words in my mouth. I never said that there was NO PROBLEM. I was just explained what LED to the problem.... Apologizing for evil? WTF does that even mean?

Like I said bro, I am listening. Once and for all, lay out the plans for how we need to change this country. Not even the world... Lay it out man. Make me understand. Cause sitting here pointing out ever little flaw in the world does nothing for progress. It changes nothing.

So for instance, here we go: I, Zach619, officially apologize for the atrocities that Native American's went through at the hands of our ancestors. It was truly unfair.....

Okay, now that that is out of the way... Did that change anything? WTF does it matter?

 

it didnt change the most important thing; your cavalier attitude.

'yep, its a shame people commit atrocities, nothing we can do, honey pass the chips dancing with the stars is on'

'Murrica

3 big changes IMO would go over well:
single term limits for all politicians
alter/remove finance from election campaigns
accountability for all LEO's and legislators (via transparency and body cams for cops)

its s start, but the fish rots from the head, cant really be saved, lets face it, we live in a hyper-oligarchy, how long can that last?

 

Haha, I hear you bro. If you think the most important thing is my attitude, well shucks, I'm blushing....

But again, you can use your condescending keyboard tones all you want to try and paint yourself as this all knowing, peacful, just monk who has the world figured out, but I don't buy it....

'Yup, America Sucks. The Cops suck. The CIA sucks. We shouldn't have a military. We should release all the prisoners in the country. I hate farm raised chickens'

'Honey, are you actually going to do anything about these things'?

'No'

'Well then STFU, stop crying and pass the chips'

'Murrica, the place where everyone *****es, but never does anything about it.