Shinnecock Tribe wants to kick out the richers from the East End...

People don't always know why they are doing what they are doing

 

Yes, in theory this works, and it is no doubt true of industries in which craftsmanship reigns supreme, but these industries are few and far between today. Because there is an abundance of people willing to sacrifice their entire lives for money (a situation perpetuated by many of the laws and conditions we have discussed), even in 'skilled' industries like the financial sector, there is high turnover and high compensation. Many bankers and traders burn out and change careers or go solo. And there is an army of educated younger hopefuls waiting to take their turn in the grist mill. Though, I suppose, the financial sector hasn't been putting out a good product.... quite the opposite for the recent decades, actually. But the industry has been propped up by our tax dollars and the corporate instruments of our financial ruin have been given but slaps on the wrist. Perhaps we are nearing an agreement here.

 

we are very close on agreement of what is ideal, jsut not the methods of creating that ideal, i think people and voluntary, coersion-free agreements are the answer, you seem to favor a mythical benign entity (gvt) that will solve the problems

 

Couldn't have said it better myself. You see, if we cut all the semantics, there is a lot to agree on here.

I am still waiting to hear what the solution is, and not continuing to identify more and more problems. Because if it is problems you seek, you will find one around every corner.

 

There is the underlying problem in the country. It's not that people are getting so drastically under paid, it is that their skillset and abilities are becoming obsolete. I mean, when I heard that Fast Food workers in Chicago were organizing strikes so they can get wages of $15.00? I almost spit out my coffee? Because think about it, no offense, I have used the touch screen ordering system in JBX on the west coast, guess what, my order NEVER got messed up. Taking an order that a computer can do more efficiently is hardly worthy of $15.00 per hour. I mean, do you how many people in this country would jump all over a job for $15.00 per hour?

It is what it is. And this is the fundamental problem with Capitalism: Not only is it unethical, but board members of publicly traded companies will lose their jobs immediately and potentially face jail time if they do not put their companies FINANCIAL interests as their #1 priority, with regards to every decision... Sure, they can responsibly figure out ways to keep call centers on US soil, but incorporating the annoying, robitic asnwering services.... So now you have a call center with 1/3 of the staff it needs, but but has still replaced 2/3 of it's staff with robots...

I mean, if you are in a position to make these FINANCIAL decisions, how can you justify to your shareholders that you are going to spend 10x the money and get the same product. That is the problem. The problem is that there are no regulations against out sourcing overseas. In soooo many cases, it is irresponsible for decision makers NOT to do this?

So, McDonalds or whomever is supposed to just tell people, yeah we can save $15 Billion a year by replacing 80% of our staff with robots, but we are not going to do that.... What is the justification, other than feeding into the betterment of the whole system, of which we are a part of, but getting no financial gain.....

The problem is, corporations exist to make money. American labor is some of the highest in the world. Fact. That is the issue. Now we have the hispanic community, coming into the country LEGALLY and happily working for $9 per hour at McDonalds.... So, there are a few million people chomping at the bit for wages like that, but the ones with the jobs want twice the money....

I think we would all like twice as much money as we currently have. But the reality in the national and world economy is that there are checks and balances, all leading to financial gain.

I mean, remember when Apple was exposed 3 years ago for all their slave labor mills that were pumping out the 50 million iphones and ipads American knows and loves? Everyone that follows news read that story, they looked down at their iPhone and said f it. I could rattle off all of the fortune 500 companies that have been exposed for sweat shops and sending everything overseas. Nike, Apple, IBM, Verizon, Spint, AT&T, Toyota, Chevy, GM... I mean, the list goes on and on....

So again, everyone needs to be as responsible as they can, but if you look in your closest, or in your garage or at the tag in your wetsuit, you know what you will find? Taiwan, China, Indo... Etc. Etc.....

So yes, do what you can, but the WHOLE system is broken if that is how you look at it.

 

1) Not entirely sure what you mean by the 'Barry Goldwater franchise government'- did a bit of a lookup and I don't see much (unless you're referring to his local cable act?).

I was inferring that we could have multiple varied parties representing smaller segments of society, which would then form ruling coalitions. I love the fact that people could vote for and receive representation that is more closely aligned to their beliefs, mitigating the 51-49% issue. I do not love the republican aspect of it, in which the smaller parties frequently have to form a ruling coalition, but I believe it is a worthwhile compromise. Government in much of Europe is like this, and I believe in Israel also. In my opinion it simultaneously allows more direct representation of extremists while preventing the entire party from catering to extremist beliefs in order to win the 51-49% dilemma.

2) Hahaha. I am entirely okay with taxation, and yes, it is okay to just take a finger. In fact, I think that it is necessary for everyone to give a finger. How to give it, however, is a difficult issue. We have a terrible taxation system and one alternative would be mandatory community service. There are certain elements of infrastructure and large scale projects (higher education, CDC, interstate system, Hydroelectric projects, etc) that are absolutely in the national interest and should be maintained as so. Everyone could work on these things for a short period, instead of the government taking our money and spending most of it idiotically, greasing buddy contracts that run over budget, while a small amount trickles through to the core necessities of a 21st century nation.

I would much prefer to give my proverbial finger firsthand then let my productivity get lost in the noise of pork spending and coffer filling under the guise of 'fiscal responsibility' and 'serving the constituents.' I know you would rather just dig a local well and homeschool the rugrats, but we're way past that with the whole "U.S.A" thing now. Way, way past that. Trying to think of realistic alternatives here.

 

Zach, they could make the argument that paying the workers more reduces turnaround/retraiing fees AND creates a better product that is more competitive in the marketplace

for instance, they are not replacing humans with robots YET, becasue humans can do it better, the robots are not fine/delicate enough

when they out compete humans, then the corpo is forced to bow to the will of the shareholders

and my solution is to build a better tomorrow on the rotting carcass of today by human centered action, not relying of institutes of coercion

 

slashdog, you saying taking a finger is ok, and forcing people to work on public works projects is horrifying, slavery is ok then?

if they want to eat and have money, they should want to work, but forcing them to work or give a finger is morally bankrupt

if people can see the benefit of voluntarily giving a finger, then we can talk

 

The robots will still f you in the drive through.

 

yea, but srsly, who eats fast food?
BTW waffle house is not fast food, its gourmet
huddle house on other hand is garbage

 

It was called the South. Before the war of northern aggression =)

 

I said that mandatory community service is a feasible alternative if you want control over where your taxed labor goes. I forgot to mention that you could choose which project you worked on. Teacher, old folks caretaker, structural welder for a hydroelectric dam, or ditch digger. It is not slavery if the fruits of the labor are distributed equally. Of course you could opt out of this much as you can opt out of the current system, with the expected consequences.

Maybe the respective jobs could have a varying rewards system; people who work in HI as lifeguards are already experiencing their 'Quality of Life' benefit, whereas the ditch-diggers and concrete pourers of Appalachia could receive credits for the Nevada Bunny Ranch or Budweiser ... Or exemption from student debt at an affiliated state university. I am trying to offer realistic alternatives here. I do not believe the USA should be dissolved, I want it to be all it can be!

It is a rarity for me but the other day I relapsed and ate a Taco Bell Quesarita, Mexican Pizza, and Two Mc-Doubles from McDonalds IN THE SAME MEAL. Then I went in a hot-tub.

WTF is huddle house?

 

That day is coming, and then what do we do as a nation? I mean, where are individuals with no skill set, no education going to go and get even a minimum wage?

Everything we do in this country and the world is heading towards less and less human interaction. Self checkout lines. Online banks. Banking phone apps. Atms. Touch screen ordering at fast food. Siri and on and on.

This is the world that we all dreamed of a couple decades ago, and the reality is starting to set in. And non-skill labor positions are becoming fewer and fewer by the second.

 

why are you hung up USA? it may have had its day in the sun, and if you look at history, its day has passed, going the way of the roman empire, balkanization is on the way.

welcome to ecotopia, formally Washington, Oregon and Nocal
welcome to dumassistan, alabama, GA, northern FL and SC*

The modern nation-state is only about 500 years old. The nature of human relations is that they evolve. We evolved into the modern nation-state, and sooner or later (almost certainly sooner) we're going to evolve out of it.

There are some who would like to see us evolve into a single world superstate, but it's pretty clear that isn't working very well. Doesn't mean those that want to see this won't keep trying; they are obstinate megalomaniacs, after all.



I'm betting it's going to go the other way.

* apologies gents

 

I am just saying, i would love to know who you would like to see behind the wheel of this new world. Cause every day that I check the news, I see things worse and worse around the rest of the world.

That is why I keep talking about 'merica. Cause here we are fighting about first world problems. Splitting hairs basically, arguing over OTHER PEOPLE'S rights. But in the same breath, you are saying how far behind we are and how terrible we have become.

As as$ backwards as this site may be, I think it's pretty cool that we are all wasting our time brainstorming how to make the world a better place.

And I can't stress this enough, the very idea that you guys are bringing up, slavery aside of course, is the confederate south. That was the whole point. They didn't want a tyrannical powerhouse dictating the fate of all people. They fought for individual, smaller sections of control (states at that point), because they feared that one day, the union would be exactly what it is today. A power far stronger than the people who supposedly control it.

 

Fixed it for you.

 

[video=youtube;f38Y0i0-mHA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f38Y0i0-mHA[/video]


and zach, yep, the south had some things right; fried foods, college football, and freedom (for white people)

when you have human ownership, its kinda hard to talk seriously about freedom, but I understand what you are trying to say

 

I found this letter in a book that talked about about native american/indian/redman spirituality. The 5th paragraph gives me goosebumps every single time I read it.

http://craftx.org/sites/all/themes/...o_President_Pierce_from_Chief_Seattle_p10.pdf

 

......and the floridian education system spreads its seeds...

 

MIS, is that South Park "clip" really on 10 HOURS of repeat? You won't watch an hour straight of it bro. You won't.