Thanks Barack for your great healthcare reform

Brew,

This is a very interesting graph. My question is: How much of this "defense spending" is actually in the form of money sent to other countries to protect our so-called "interests"? If this is indeed included in the equation, I could understand why countries such as Russia and China are spending considerably less than the U.S.

As well, many references have been made to Europe as some type of Utopia as a medical model for the world. Having lived near Canada and having many Canadians as friends for decades, I will venture that the Canadian model is very similar to the European model. Consequently, I can also say that many Canadians are extremely unhappy with their situation.

I'm curious as to how many Europeans are unhappy as well. Maybe that's why monied Euros tend to get private health care; they tend to see it as a better option than what their own country is giving them.

OTOH, I know a few Canadian girls that went in to take care of minor issues and came out with free boob jobs.

Cool, but how many Americans want their tax money to go towards making their citizenry into a bunch of strippers?

 

Taxpayers always foot the bill. My point is we, people who work, are going to pay for indigent care one way or another. It's not like poor people were'nt being treated for life threating conditions before Obama care. I do believe there is a better way to give access to health care for those in need that would benefit all citizens.

 

Just as a point of interest-- my offspring has a friend from Turkey. He needed a cat scan. He asks for the price of it here in New England--about $4500 for the service. In Turkey, it was $70.
He went home, saw his parents, had his cat scan, saw his friends.etc.
He recently returned to Turkey, got a great job, and is happy with the medical system there. Insurance companies are not part of the health care system there, I am told.
toodle le do, folks. Stay healthy!! It is the way to a fat bank account!!!
My wife and I are going for our afternoon walk right now to go see them big waves!!
Tomorrow, I surf!!

 

i hope you stub your toe on your walk

 

That is a good breakdown.

I don't know how things work in Canada, but I do know many Canadians. They don't seem to mind their healthcare program, but they are also no ecstatic about it. Germans and Italians (the places I have lived) are quite happy with their system. They don't love high taxes, but at this point, they see the pros are outweighing the cons. The main benefit to the insurance system in Germany, is being able to pick and choose timing and doctors for your healthcare. Most large companies offer this standard in the employment package. But the key is, if you don't have money or a great job, you can still go to the doctor. It may not be on your own preferred schedule, but you will get care.
In EU, government healthcare will not cover a boob job.

 

Turkey has socialized healthcare, thus the low cost.
http://www.allaboutturkey.com/health.htm

I agree with your point about good health. However, accidents do happen, and some people are just born more vulnerable to illness/disease.

 

Brew, that is a nice chart and illustrates why we are the leader of the free world. Now, to your point. 2016 fiscal budget....Health=21%, Defense= 13%, "other"=24%, pensions=20%, education=14%, welfare=8%.

Ok, I will definitely agree that there is wasteful spending in defense as in the rest of government spending. All of gov't is to blame...right, left etc.

The #1 responsibility of the US gov't to it's citizens is to keep us safe. I could care less that our defense budget is equal to the rest of the world. It would take all of them to take us out. And don't think that China, Iraq, and Russia don't think about it (although I think China would like continue the status quo b/c they really get their cake and get to eat it.

Please don't misunderstand my position b/c US History makes me sick in many ways...just pointing out the fact of the matter.

 

I know a Canadian who lost her sister while waiting on procedure (mastectomy)...she is not thrilled about their healthcare system.

 

I am not seeing the numbers you quote. Here the defense budget is 18%: http://www.usnews.com/opinion/econo...04/10/on-tax-day-where-do-your-tax-dollars-go
And this isn't even including the benefits to military and vets (which is something I am 100% for). There is no reason we need to be spending 18% of our national budget on defense. The big percentage of healthcare is medicare/medicaid, which existed before ACA. The FOx news crowd is always so quick to criticize the poor, saying that we spend too much on safety net programs and whatnot. They never want to look at the military. They also never want to consider the point that our taxes are relatively low, while we try to remain a world power and global military force. Something has to give. Do we fock the lower class (including those that work all the crap jobs most of us won't do), or do we start talking about reducing our military coverage? Or maybe taxing to cover that massive money pit...

 

I was looking at data from US budget and US Census Bureau. You link sites OMB. Here is the link to OMB data...different #s put ratios are similar. Your chart does not site Healthcare spending specifically (note not just ACA as you mention)

http://www.usfederalbudget.us/

I am with you man...budget is jacked up. My point is that we still need a strong military. I am not criticizing the poor, I am criticizing gov't spending problem. I will criticize those who can help themselves and society as a whole but choose to suck on the tit of America instead. (for the record...most are afraid to disclose where they stand...I look at each issue individually and take a position. If you added it all up I am probably right of center....certainly not part of the "fox news crowd" or the "Chich and Maddow crowd"...much more independent in my thoughts).

I do think the current situation with the VA is an atrocity (thank you to all that serve/served).

 

I would suggest that the following as part of the reason our military spending/costs are higher:
1. We take better care of our personnel, in general (sans the aforementioned VA issues).
2. Many of our systems are "defensive" in nature (vs. offensive), especially in the Navy. For example, it costs a lot more money to develop and implement a system to defend a ship from an anti-ship missile than to develop an anti-ship missile. For years the soviets ships were "armed to the teeth" with offensive fire power, and the Navy needed to counter/protect against this threat, being one of the strategies/cornerstones of our Navy is the "power projection" of the aircraft carrier/troop carriers. This was further illustrated in the Falkland conflict where a relatively inexpensive Exocet took out an expensive HMS.
3. Our posture has been to counter and defend against threats worldwide. I don't see anyone else wearing this mantle. This gets expensive.

I do realize there is waste and we could probably rethink our role and strategy and be more efficient and save some $$, but it is expensive to be the defender of the free world.

BTW, WRT thread topic, regardless of one's philosophical position, IMHO, the Affordable Health Care Act is poorly implemented, as has be shown to have inconsistencies and unfair outcomes, which it was supposed to resolve. Additionally, there may be some unintended consequences (i.e., Metard, et. al. have pointed out), further degrading health care in this country.

 

I am NOT adverse to socialized medicine, PROVIDED (!!!) it applies equally to ALL citizens, and ALL pay in equal! Th only persons that should pay in more, much, much more are politicians. Why?? Because they are all assholes. Take Obama for instance..........what a moron..........

 

Good point. That's why we haven't had any big expensive wars in so long right?

For your sake, I hope you're an excellent surfer. Your reasoning certainly isn't getting you anywhere.

So please keep your baby boomer bullsh*t babble to yourself. There's no need for threads like this on a surf forum.

 

Not to mention ourcase.co.uk another government beurocracy that will grow out of it and consume the majority of the casesam.co.uk money.

 

I agree on the VA, but that isn't part of the defense budget. As I mentioned above, I am 100% for care and benefits to soldiers and veterans. If we are going to put these people through hell, they should be taken care of.

"I will criticize those who can help themselves and society as a whole but choose to suck on the tit of America instead."
Small fries. National unemployment rate is 5%. So only 5% are not contributing anything to the work force. That 5% doesn't even represent a good estimate of people dependent on the government. How much of the 5% are stay at home moms? What about the people (like my aunt) that have spouses making enough money that they don't have to work? So where does all the social program money go?
Well, not where you think it would go: https://www.ssa.gov/cgi-bin/netcomp.cgi?year=2014
35-40 million American workers (not leaches) make an annual salary below the federal poverty level for individuals. If you start looking at working families with a couple children, that number increases greatly. We need to disconnect ourselves from this ultra conservative mindset that the poor people are to blame for the problems in this country. I grew up in WV. I saw first hand what most people would call leaches. However, these people made up a very small part of the population. A more common sight in my hometown, was the blue-collar American worker collecting food stamps, because his/her family could not live on the salary they received. These people ended up voting for the right. They voted for the local candidates that preached elimination of the programs that helped their own families. They were brainwashed by the fast talking politicians and media outlets like Fox news. They are easy prey, as they were mostly hard core Christians. /class warfare rant

I think we need to all step back and look for another group to blame. The data, the facts, the numbers... they just don't support what many ultra conservative politicians preach.

 

We have been at war for the last 214 years. Even if they weren't considered formal major wars, we were fighting in some country. Where has it gotten us? We have done nothing but grow the military and spend more. Reagan did nothing. The nuclear program of the 50's and 60's kept us from being invaded. Only the fear of thermonuclear war. It was close, too. Both our countries had their fingers on the trigger. We ant to be world police, but we don't want to pay taxes to cover that. Can't have it both ways (unless you start focking our own citizens over).

 

Unemployment at 5%? What planet are you on? Even the u6 is over 8 and that doesn't count people off the unemployment doll. People who gave up looking for work. And here's an idea, if were so worried about outside threats then why arm a bunch of islamofacist with high grade military weapons. Maybe that wasn't such a good idea Hilary.

 

http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000
U3 is the official unemployment rate.

Still doesn't change the numbers of employed people below the poverty line.

 

Only if we get the 6 weeks paid time off per year. I could deal with the socialism if we also got the same type of work life balance those Euros have. We work way to ****ing much dude.