Illegals are great people

Well, IIRC, you stated earlier that you believe that illegals should be given a "pathway to legalization" (and not citizenship). I strongly disagree with the premise that rewarding lawbreakers who, in essence, cut in front of the line of people who are attempting to enter legally. They broke the law, they pay the consequences. Period. A pathway to legalization would only exacerbate Reagan's Amnesty, which was only supposed to be a one-time gig. This is one of the reasons I believed that you were misinformed...along with using Obama's alleged deportation numbers.

FWIW, I am relieved that you actually research some of this stuff. It's amazing to find somebody that actually has a little bit of a clue about IRIRA lol.

And as far as replacing illegals with Americans, you have an excellent point. I don't want to sound all Nationalistic and stuff, but this would most definitely be preferable.

Now, we all know one of the progressive talking points is that "they do the jobs that lazy white Americans won't". And, to be honest, there's probably a kernel of truth in that assessment. But when I see welders, drywallers, painters, pipefitters, butchers etc etc etc being filled by illegal immigrants, I absolutely refuse to buy into that huge lie.

Also, another fact is that those agricultural and hospitality jobs are not necessarily dominated by illegals. The truth is, those jobs are actually dominated by LEGAL immigrants with either a Employment Authorization Document (I-688) or actual Permanent Residents (I-551) with smatterings of illegals thrown in. So, all that stuff about $20 tomatoes is all just a bunch of leftist pandering.

But if, at the end of the day, there are jobs that Americans refuse to do, they can be filled with more *legal* nonimmigrants at lower wages from a wide variety of countries...not just our southern neighbors.

 

Tobacco only kids...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdxdwDC__sA

 

Fair points. There are a few things we disagree on slightly; however, I can see the good logic in your argument. I conceded about the Obama numbers immediately because we can argue who has the correct numbers all day, it just derails us from the point. I understand the difference in deportation classification post IRIRA (return vs removal). I also understand Reagan's Amnesty was supposed to be a one time thing. I am proposing we modify it a bit and do it one more time. Except, this time the govt must actually enforce the laws on the books afterwards, and secure the border prior to passing any legislation.

The reason I am pro pathway to residency is without the right to vote or access to government programs, all they would be doing is contributing to the tax base. This seems like a win-win for the US in my eyes. I figure most won't want to live in a country where they put in but don't reap any of the benefits.

Stank, please take note. Kid and I actually discussed the issue, are not in total agreement, but yet found a way to not insult each other personally and still convey our beliefs. Crazy huh?

 

mmmm don't mind if I do donkey

 

wow

i stumbled upon this site and started using it a while ago.. it blows me away how many narrow minded racists are on these forums! props to all the guys telling barrels4liam he is full of s--t.. the same racist rhetoric about how the dang brown people are calling all the shots and the poor white people can't even find work! HOW ABOUT ARRESTING THE PEOPLE WHO ARE HIRING THE ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS!! it doesn't matter how high the wall/fence is. it is a matter of economics. any time you have 2 countries sharing a border where 1 country has jobs and the other country has no jobs you are going to have problems w/ illegal immigration. who benefits more from illegal labor? Obama and his muslim/terrorist agenda or the owner of a migrant farmworker business who uses the threat of deportation to get crops picked for less than 1 dollar a day? i wonder how many illegal immigrants are working on the landscaping at trump's house right now? he's got a golf course under construction in Dubai right now where the laborers are shipped in from way out in the desert and they make less than 200 dollars a month.. i'm sorry but barrels4liam is out of his mind.. talking about all this stupid tax math like he did a bunch of homework or something..

 

You are an idiot....those that resort to using the "racist card" have no brains and are lousy debaters.
Now, get ready....I am done, but I know a few who may not be.......

 

U

Economics in the immigration debate is real but your assessment needs some perspective. If I am a villager sustaining life and working with my community to survive and I have an opportunity to go and make $200 "voluntarily" to increase my lifestyle, I do it. This very reason is why they come across the boarder and work the fields, labor etc...b/c it is worth it. Supply and Demand is a crazy thing, so is cost of goods. You cut off the source of cheP labor, the dynamic of the economics changes. I'm not a racist but think that the laws should be used to stop illegals from entering the U.S.

The strain on our health system, loss of tax revenue, and all of the fraud is substantial. Why not bring them in legally (guest worker everify etc) and let them pay taxes on earnings? Seems reasonable to me.

 

Tacos are delicious.

Mexican chics can be pretty hot, a few of them at least.

I really like jalapenos. Ever watched the Rick Bayless cooking show? Man, he knows all the best mexican dishes.

Dey took er jerbs!!!!

 

So you're saying that we should have another attempt at what proved to be futile the first time? Didn't Einstein cover that with his definition of "insanity"? In other words, don't expect the government to follow through on any promises of "enforcement". Too many lobbyists controlling the strings, dude.

This is why I proposed *no* legalization pathway. Their tax base is not needed, because just as many studies exist that they are a bigger drain on our economy than what they provide. Why do we need to keep their tax base, when they can be replaced by *legal* nonimmigrants that provide a *legal* tax base, as well as bring in revenue by host employers who pay fees to import employees? More of a "win-win" situation in my eyes.

Also, let's not forget: Not only do these people provide ill-gotten tax revenues, but many work under the table...while many others do not work at all, and are being provided with many civil and state-funded entitlement programs. Additionally, it has been proven that many are receiving federal tax credits and other social services while using fake documents.

Finally, you need to know that the previous recipients of Amnesty don't care about living in the country without reaping the benefits. During my encounters over the years, maybe 10% of the people that received amnesty ever applied and received U.S. Citizenship. That's right, 30 years in the country with no interest whatsoever in becoming a citizen. The only benefits they are interested in are work and entitlements. Nobody will take the entitlements because they don't want to be labeled as "not humanitarian" or "racist". Sound familiar?

Well Kyle, in Stank's defense, your initial posts appeared to be the usual leftist rantings ala our new buddy Trumpsteak...which is why I called you out in the first place.

 

Yeah, but I had posted a few responses outlining my stance before getting the "f@gg0t" meme. No excuse for that crap.

 

Personally, I think we should greatly do away with immigration restrictions. People can apply to enter the US, and as long as they are not on a list of suspected terrorists or felony level criminals, they should be allowed in. We would give them a little piece of paper and record them in a database. They would not be eligible for entitlements, unless and until they obtained citizenship, which they could through Military Service or some other form of public service (public building projects, etc.). Let the free market sort out the private job market.

As far as the folks already here, let them make the same application.

For centuries, this is how the US of A worked. We took in the world's huddled masses... most of them came and worked hard and built our great nation. We need to remember that we are a nation of immigrants.

If we had such a policy in place, and folks were caught without these easily obtained papers, then send them back, and include them on a 5 year ban from re-entering. If they are caught again, put them in prison for 5 years.

Finally, decriminalize most drugs. It will clear up plenty of prison space for the new illegal immigrants.

Our country needs less rules and regulation, not more.

 

Your online name suits your opinions....donkey.
If we follow your earth shattering views, the whole world would move here and this place would be the Middle East magnified by 10000++++.
It is no longer the same place in your "For centuries.." concept. There are a lot of groups that want you dead. Get it??
Now go vote for Bernie....

 

I'd have to agree with Barry on this one, aside from the go vote for Bernie remark. Come on Barry, you're better than that. I am a Bernie supporter and agree with you, for the most part, on this issue; however, I am not a one issue voter. There is never going to be one person or party that I agree with 100%, so you must consider the good with the bad when voting. That's just the way it is until we see 15 people from 15 different parties on the General Election debate stage.

Donkey, unfettered immigration, just like unfettered capitalism, will lead to gross abuse of the system. Just look back historically.

 

Bernie supporters are morons. Period. And lazy, slack ass morons. Get a job.
There is no such thing as "free", dummy, which, if you haven't noticed, is the ONLY reason morons are voting for him....the desire for "free" stuff.
You are afraid of work, even wimpy work. No balls, period.

 

Barry, what you just said is equally as ignorant as someone calling every Trump supporter a racist.

Kinda seems like you are doing the same thing, using the "lazy" card. So do you have no brains or are you a lousy debater? Or just a hypocrite?

 

Whatever troll... I'm not a Bernie supporter, and I suspect I make a fair amount more than you per year... not that that matters, AT ALL!!! Nothing I have was given to me, not even my degrees, unless you count student loans that I am repaying with my own money... And before you accuse me of being a 20 something "intellectual"... I'm 38.

If people are allowed to enter the country, and as long as they are not terrorists or criminals, then they will either survive, or not. In any event, they will pay taxes. Your plan of deporting everyone is as ludicrous as your "you must be a Bernie supporter" argument... zero substance.

Kyle, as far as your response lacks substance. This is America. The strong survive and flourish, the weak fail. The same applies to people born in other countries, and who immigrate here. Let's let Darwinism work on the immigration front. I'm tired of hand outs... are people that are born here better, just because they are born here?

 

Try more harder.

 

The truth is the truth. If we could only meet in person, you and Barry could try to school me on the way things are done on a freaking internet message board... and seriously, isn't Barry a troll? I have seen a few semi serious posts from him, but most of them just seek to get a rise out of people. Either that, or he really is that big of an a**hole. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt and assuming that he he isn't an a**hole, just a troll.

Puff, puff.

 

Wouldn't be illegal if we changed the law... aren't there some laws you think should change? For example, in NC, you couldn't use a the bathroom of your self-identified gender.