Rusty Muffin Top

That sounds great. I have a habit of dropping in a little late so that I can get that vertical face to really lean into on the drop / bottom turn as I drag my inside hand going frontside, backside I tend to draw my bottom turn out and then wind up for a roundhouse off the top and rentry to try it againe if the wave lets me. I really like turns and getting the boart on rail.

 

I have ridden several of those, most Kane Gardens, and it takes a very "particular" wave for that board, a wave that, at least here in NH, is not available. They used to be popular here, the "in" board....now, the owners are all trying to sell them--they were a fad.

Theya re all based on Larry Mabile designs.

 

What type of wave would you say it requires?

 

Very rounded, not steep, waves. One with a good peeling rounded shoulder. Very dependent of sand bars. Reef surfing (steep faces)--forget it. useless as tits on a bull.
Now, keep in mind, this is just one mans opinion.

 

That sounds like it may work around here then. There isn’t a true reef around here, just some coquina rock reef in a certain section of Brevard. It’s all sandy beach breaks for the most part and it rarely gets hollow or closed out. I’m looking to ride this in small - medium open faced waves.

 

Their flat rocker makes them more challenging in steeper waves, that's true. Some subtle design tweaks help... accelerated flip in the first 4", and some vee in the nose.

 

How small of a wave would this board work in? Would knee - waist and weak mush be too small?

 

that's even less rocker than my couch potato, which really struggles when it gets steep. It's honestly become a big drawback for me at this point, it just doesn't handle jumping off a ledge. Awesome when it's crumbly and there's a forgiving takeoff, but I've always had issues when it's heavy and there's somewhat of a drop. Then again, could be a user error, what do I know?

 

Not necessarily user error... all boards have their optimum performance window. But let me clarify the rocker comment... Let's say typical fish rockers are 4" in the nose and 2" in the tail. I'm saying you add some flip in the first 4" of nose, bringing the total nose rocker to 4"+. So your entry rocker is the same as it would be without the flip (say, a foot back), but the curve accelerates in the last 4" before the tip. Make sense?

Add some vee in the entry rocker area, and now you've created a very different rail rocker than stringer rocker, the stringer rocker being flatter (more "normal"... except for those first four inches that have been flipped) than the rail rocker, which as more curve. This little change makes a big difference on bottom turns in steep waves, AND coming off the top... your rail doesn't get hung up as much.

 

Have I bored the sh!t out of everyone yet?

 

Pretty sure that once you add more rocker, you start losing some of the biggest characteristics of the fish, i.e. *speed* and the ability to link or "float" mushy sections that curvy shortboards cannot make.

Real fishes must be kept short, flat and wide to realize the full benefits of the shape.

Adding slight curve to the tail and substituting quads for Geppies tends to loosen them up a bit

 

DP,
take a look at this site, if you will:
https://www.larrymabilesurfboards.com/surfboards

 

Nope, it’s good stuff.

 

The one thing I have tried that I know makes the biggest difference in how a fish rides and feels is tinkering with the tail shape and tail rocker. Those are two thing I keep true to original. Playing with entry rocker (that is, stringer rocker in the first roughly third of the board) is something I keep fairly true to original as well, except for that flip in the nose, which is out of the water when planing for speed. It has no effect on down the line speed.

Barry's right about fish being trendy... in and out of style... But I've never stopped riding them. I've been riding and building them for 36 years... countless "generations" of design.

But what works for me may not work for everybody. It's all about your personal style, and what you want to get out of your board.

 

Very nice! Thanks for sharing, some good work he’s doing.

 

It was always my impression, Mabile was one of, if not the first, in designing "fish". I had one of his designs, made for me by G&S (he used to shape for them). I use it for a year or two, had a few nice sessions but then the sandbars changed locally where the waves became useless for the board, so I sold it. It was very akin to a skateboard, for sure.

 

My first fish was a G&S as well... don't recall the shaper. It didn't mean anything to me at the time anyway. I was till in high shool... so, 1980ish? '79?

At this point, Toby Pavel is the biggest influence on my fish shapes.

 

Your G&S fish, then , was a Mabile designed and maybe even shaped by him. I believe he was there at that time. Then he started Kane Garden (I think-not sure) with someone else.

 

I like that skateboard feel. How it will go in the surf around here is TBD but I have a feeling it will be fun. I’ll keep him in mind for when it’s time to pull the trigger.

 

My opinion is that that a true keel fin fish, like the one you pictured above, is NOT a very good board for mushy waves under maybe stomach high. They are better in those conditions than many other options, like a HPSB, or fun-shape, but not as good as a mini simmons, or other true small wave shapes.

The twin keel fish just isn't a small wave board. They excel out on open faces, going fast to connect sections and take high lines...big sweeping large radius turns kind of surfing. knee-waist high mushy waves arent conducive to that kind of surfing. But yeah, i guess you could grovel on one. I had a 5'9" twin keel for many years, miss it a lot, want another one bad, but didn't really ride the one i had much when it was under waist high. It was like taking the hot rod to buy groceries.