I was originally told i should of had the order by Friday. But according to the UPS tracking thing ill have the supplies by tomorrow. Just to give you guys sn update, doctors said my grandmother had 2 months to live last week. She was given her last rites on Friday. Point being i most likley won't get started right away as i am planning on visiting her this weekend or even sooner depending on how rapidly her health declines. The board can wait. Being there for my family and seeing my grandmother on last time before it's too late is more important at the moment. Iv been going through the shaping process in my head and realized i have another question. The rails. So i get the whole concept of the rail bands to roughly form the rails, then you blend them. So when you create your tuck and top rail bands your left with a flat section at the rail apex. Correct my if I'm wrong, but that's your outline, sanding away at that spot would then change your outline, no? So my question is how does one go about blending that area to round the rails? Just hit the hard edge created by the first rail band and tuck? As i get closer to getting to work on the board i find myself going through certain processes in my head and am almost over thinking things in anticipation, creating confusion on things that i thought i understood just fine.
BassMon, I'm sorry to hear about your grandmother. I had a very special relationship with my maternal grandmother before she passed, and I miss her very much. More than anything, I hate to see anything or anyone suffer and I only wish to pass quickly and painlessly. I wish you the strength to overcome this without suffering greatly. On another note, I haven't stuck my big mouth in this thread yet because I have no shaping experience, although I have always wanted to try. I have a good friend that hand shaped 3 boards without a planer, all of which turned out to be very nicely shaped. His secret was to "take your time". He would work on the basic plan shape, then rest and study what he had done, and what he wanted to do next. Then, he go out with his sure form or block sander, and take a little more off. Then rest and study again. It seems that maybe the biggest problem for beginners is that they rush, and wind up removing too much foam. That's a problem. Get your head cleared out, then slowly and methodically shape your masterpiece. It may even prove to be cathartic for you. Good luck.
Sorry to hear about your grandmother. That's rough - yeah the blank will be there, and shaping can be theraputic or at least you can get lost in it by the way. If i'm understanding your question...yes there will be a flat outer edge on the rail, after you cut the deck/rail bands and tuck in the bottom. I flip the board up on edge in the rack and use screen to round out the rail. you will try to orient the screen so that most of the cutting is along the top and bottom bevels - not directly mowing back that flat section on the rail apex. As the bevels become rounder and rounder your rail will be nearly done and you will still have just a hint of that flat apex so your template outline is preserved. Eventually as you finish the rails there will be no flat outer edge left and you may end up taking 1/8" or so of foam directly out of the rail apex. Here is another thing it took me too many boards to realize: Don't try to shape that nice hard crisp bottom edge in the rear of the board during the shaping stage. Its too hard to get the glass to wrap around a hard edge and you will be left with bubble lines where the edge prevents the wetted cloth from laying flat against the blank. Leave all edges softened off a bit in the shaping process, then get that hard edge back where you want it when you hotcoat and sand out the hot coat.
Thanks mitchell. You nailed it. Thats exactly what i was talking about. I was definitely just over thinking it. Nice tip about that hard edge in the tail too. I was actually thinking about that as well. If you create a dam during the hot coat, seems as though that's more important in creating that edge then during the shaping process. Off topic. But it's weird how things work out. I was planning on waiting til warmer weather to begin shaping. Then got excited and decided i would just go for it and use my parents basement as they live only a town over and i can control the temperature there better than i can at my house. Pops was excited about it knowing id be coming over a bit more often. Well he lost his brother in the spring. Is losing his mother now. And he's worried about he's father not being far behind. It's been a rough year for him and the whole family. Hanging out with me while i shape, lending a helping hand, and just having somthing to take his mind off things and having his son around..... this board will be therapeutic for us both. Glad i made the decision to not wait.
Mich pretty much said it all. The one thing I like to tell people about the final shaping of the rail is that once the outline is cut and squared up, if you made a light pencil line along the rail apex all the way around the board it should still be there when the board is finish shaped. In other words, you never touch that point on the rail with a tool again. Your essentially bringing those two corners of the top and bottom rail bevel together, and stopping at the apex. Realistically, you'll probably take a final pass around the rail with 150 wrapped around the entire rail (with or without your upholstery foam pad) to "polish" it... as you do the entire board... but that's about it. On another note aboot rails... For a first time shaper, you might want to start by templating a rail on a board that you like. If you don't have a contour/profiling gauge (google it), it's easy to do with a piece of solder. Then take that profile and transfer it to a piece of graph paper. If you want to make any changes to the rail shape or volume do it then, on paper. Once you have the rail you want, start making straight lines at different angles to see where your rail bands need to be cut to get that rail volume and shape. Measure where those "dots" will have to be on your outlined blank and those are your rail band marks. Once you've done a few boards you'll start to get the hang of it and have some pretty set numbers in your head. But this is a good way to break the ice of shaping rails... the hardest part to get right and critical to the performance of a board.
Great info. I found plenty of guidelines for diffrent rails. But those are just guidelines. I will give this a shot and see how similar the numbers are to those guidelines. Great tip with the solder also. I wanted a way to see if the rails were identical, or as close to identical as i can get it. Wasn't sure how to go about that without buying a profiling gauge (also didn't know that's what they were called either). Got a truck full of solder. Perfect. Your idea or old school trick of the trade?
Versions of the profiling gauge are old school... the solder is a "necessity is the mother of invention" thing for me. My profiling gauge is so old it's really stiff, so I can only use it on a glassed board. I needed something to profile a soft foam rail, so the solder idea was the solution. Another rail tip... Rail shape: Your rail tuck has a big influence on the finished rail's shape. Err on the side of too small a tuck. You can always take it down, but if you take too much off at the start, your rail apex will end up too high, and you'll miss the mark on the rail shape. Rail volume: Your primary rail band determines your rail volume. Where it's marked on the side of the rail, and the angle of that band, determines the rail's ultimate volume.
Order recieved. A few issues however. For one im missing the leash plug and the rail runner. Not to big an issue as i emailed greenlight so I'm sure I'll receive them. Second issue is the blank is broken. Not terribly. Not greenlights fault either. Wanted opinions. The blank is 5'10 (and i believe some change). Was planning on doing a 5'8-5'10. Well a 5'10 is out of the question now. If i cut the blank directly under the damage i can still get a 5'7 out of it. Not really what i wanted to do but this first board is more about learning then anything. If i have to make it a few inches shorter oh well. I don't really care. If i do that id have to do some extra work to fix the rocker. Not necessarily a bad thing. Like i said, all about learning. My second thought is this. The very top of the damaged area looks like it may be salvage-able. At least to my inexperienced eyes. Here are the pictures. Looks like since it's the tip of the nose, and the nose obviously gets foiled, i might have enough foam still. When i emailed greenlight i also mentioned the blank issue. Not sure if they will send a new one or not. Either way this blank will be used at some point. In my line of work these situations is what makes you better. Anyone can solder or braze pipe with plenty of room under perfect conditions. But it's when your in tight spots or can't see that separates the men from the boys. So either way I'll be salvaging this blank
Few more pictures with measurements. And for anyone confused about the blank being in half. That's how greenlight ships them to save money on shipping for the customer. Stringer is glued to one half of the blank, customer glues the other half on.
Can't you make the left the right... and put the damaged corner to the outside? Or is the stringer already glued to the one half? If it is, have them send you another stringer and flip sides.
Yeah the stringer is already glued to the one half. That was my first thought as well. As far as switching sides, the predetermined stringer side is flat. The outside or rail side of the blank has indentations so there would be 5 gaps between foam and stringer.
Total outsider looking in idea...probably a reason why this has not been brought up. How about notch out damaged area to a clean square void, then cut same size piece off of outside corner that would be cut away anyway. Glue it in place prior to the shaping process?
Was thinking somthing along those lines as well. Not sure if it would work though. Was wondering if someone would bring this up. I just was looking at the blank. If i make it a 5'7 i could totally still have enough rocker. I ride alot of boards with low rocker. Even in big barreling waves. Just measured the rocker on my 5'8... it's 3.5 in. That 5'8 is a custom, which was based off my 6'3 single fin. Both boards being what I'm basing this design off of. Slightly. If i cut the damaged area clean off, the blank has a rocker of 3 or 3.5. I forgot already. Rough day. Depending on how i go about removing foam i can add some more rocker in, lower it, or keep it where it's at. I'll definitely have less room for error though. Looks like getting a new blank is going to be a pain in the ass. Got to file a claim through UPS and go through that whole process. Probably going to just make due with this one. Honestly i was going with a 5'10 just to give myself wiggle room. 5'8s & 5'7s are more my size anyway.
Atta Boy. You are seeing it right ... and Mano, that bort will be special now like no other. I wished my whole life for a bond like that with my Dad. Has never happened so I’m glad to see you caught that - although it doesn’t surprise me, knowing you.
If there is 3.0 to 3.5 inches of nose rocker measured to the damaged area, then thats plenty. You will end up adding about 1/2" of additional rocker just through foiling. I'm looking at your measuring tape...there's over 1.5" of thickness at that spot. So if you foil 1/4" off the deck, and 1/2" off the bottom (by gradually blending in some nose rocker in the front 12"-18" of the blank) you will still have 3/4" thickness at the nose which is enough to more than enough. I'd just do that - make the 5'7" - although yeah it is possible to glue in a foam notch thats not something i would fool with. AND....go after the damn UPS for a new blank. They tore up the item....they should take care of you.
Fading in rocker adjustments accurately is tricky on your first go. You can do it, but you'll have to be super careful to not create breaks in the curve of your entry rocker. You can cheat a bit and beak the nose... give you a little extra margin of error. Since you're going to have to seal the entire board anyway, I'd still flip sides and fill any voids with DAP Lightweight Fast n Final, or a thick mixture of microballoons and resin, mixed to the consistency of peanut butter. I've done this many times, and you can't see it even under clear lam jobs. Paint it and you definitely never see it. Plus... those dents from where they strapped the blank to glue up the stringer are mostly on the corners... you're gonna shape a lot of that out anyway. The sealing step is important... particularly with billet foam, which is what you have. The pressure molded stuff, not so much.
^i figured the pros would have some insight. The “fading of rocker” to a shorter board seems challenging. LB your saying remove the glued stringer and re-glue to other side? If that is easy to do, makes sense. This is why I let shapers shape lol...I would already be gluing a block in void!
Thanks for the insight guys. I was thinking of doing a beak nose, not sure how exactly to go about that but it was definitely idea. Again, I'm saying this from a completly inexperienced point of view. But considering where i wanted the rocker measurements to be, i don't believe id have to fade to much. If at all. Got to double check the measurements as i forgot moments after measuring. It was spot on or only slightly off though. That i remember. Going to be busy the next few days. Will think through my options and come up with a plan of attack. Looks like the shaping process will begin on this weekend
You could certainly do that... cut along the stringer, then sand off all the glue and foam bits down to clean wood, then re-glue. Or... just have Greenlight send you another stringer. Greenlight uses long clamps to do glue-ups. I just use weights. Works fine.
