Ever hear of Ryan Burch? You gotta wonder how many "ryan burchs" there are out there, just doing their own thing and getting really, REALLY good at it. So good that one day somebody says... Hey, will you make me one of those? I'll pay you. And that's how it starts for a lot of local shapers. People see your work, see you or somebody else riding your boards, and like what they see. I think what K.Slhater's talking about is when it goes the other way... people want to be professional shapers and put all this effort into making a business, with or without the talent, knowledge, and skill to build great boards consistently, or to be able to translate a particular surfer's needs into a functional piece of equipment.
No one is claiming to be a craftsman on the level of Jim Phillips or Terry Martin, but a local shaper with talent has an inherent advantage over any master craftsman 3000 miles away. They can meet with you in person, see the boards you are currently riding, and know the waves you currently surf. After 200 boards, if you can't make a magic custom board you should hang up the planer. But you are sadly mistaken when you say that a young shaper with under 2000 board can't make a magic board. I am personally friends with 3 shapers in California with under 500 boards who are well respected and considered to be established. One of them, DJ Kane, was invited to compete at the Sacred Craft shape off. Another, Manny Caro has been a featured shaper at Mollusk surf shop, one of the most popular and respected surf shop chains in California, since around 200 boards. The third, Ian Zamora, has been shaping for pro surfers since around 200 boards. These are three quick examples, there are many more. ALL of these guys charge more than $450 for a board. Their designs have been considered MAGIC. Manny is considered an expert in modified Hull design. DK's design, the Swordfish, has been coveted as innovational by many within the industry to the point that he was asked to shape shop label boards for Thalia St surf shop. Ian's HP Fish has been championed by Channel Islands team riders. One CI team rider in particular keeps several Zamora boards in his quiver and has been riding them since before Ian had 200 boards done. Manny actually just broke 500 last year since he started his relationship with Moonlight Glassing. You and Kelli do a horrible dis-service to your local brothers by spewing this BS. You're both talking out your a$$ without any substantiation. All three of those shapers above were charging $450 for boards BEFORE they hit 200. They all charge over $450 before hitting 500. And those prices were completely justified by cost of materials and quality of craftsmanship. You are talking about something you have no clue about and potentially hurting local businesses. After 50 boards if you CAN'T consistently shape a good board you shouldn't be wasting your time and money. If you've shaped and glassed 8 boards you should have a clue the amount of investment it takes to get to 50 boards. And if you have half a clue about good board design, you should understand how to put all the elements together even at only 8 boards. The real question is whether you have the TALENT to put it all together. Some do and some don't. By 50 boards a halfway intelligent person would stop wasting time and money if they don't have the talent to put it together. That doesn't make you a master craftsman or master shaper. Every shapers work will reach the quality level at a different point and when it does they deserve to make a reasonable profit. After materials and overhead, $450 for a shortboard is about $30 an hour. Do the math and you'll find that is only $60k a year. After buying health insurance that's only $50k a year ($40k if you have to buy health insurance for a family). Let's say you make a board a day, which is a gross over-estimate given the market in NJ. But for hypothetical purposes we will assume that you can sell a board a day 5 days a week. That's 260 boards a year. By you and Kellis estimates, it would take 8 years before you could make $450 a board and $40k a year for your family to live on. Think about the absurdity of that now when compared to the cost of living. Or didn't you think about that? No one said you did. But you CAN get a great board that will work in our waves from a local shaper who has only made 200 boards, contrary to what both you and Kelli are claiming. No one around here should hold it against you for buying a board made in the USA by surfers. But when someone chimes in with gross misinformation about random 2000 board numbers for a shaper to be able to charge a fair price for their boards, people with common sense are going to jump down your throat. Especially when you are potentially hurting their business. I agree with the point that there are people who start selling themselves as shapers too soon. I have seen websites displaying boards with outlines that are not symmetrical. A surfer needs to be educated enough to tell the difference. LBcrew stated the problem above. Too many uneducated surfers can't tell the difference. But to say that someone who makes a quality product can't charge a fair price is ridiculous. $450 IS a fair price for a young shaper to charge when you look at the market. To apply a random number like 200 or 2000 is absurd and unless you have shaped that many boards you really do not belong talking about it or discrediting someone else.
Again you are the voice of reason. This is absolutely true. There are people who try to sell themselves before they should. And this may be the point Kelli and Zippy tried to make, unsuccessfully. When they applied random values to the number of boards to be considered a good shaper when they themselves do not have the experience to make these evaluations, that's when this thread went wrong. $450 is a fair price and the going rate for a younger shaper to charge. And by young I mean years shaping, not age. Look at their body of work and not the number of boards they've shaped to decide if you want to buy a board from them. Quite honestly there are some shapers out there who have over 2000 boards shaped who I wouldn't buy from. Quality, not quantity is the real measure.
What you don't realize is that yours and Kelli's mindsets are the exact reason we do not have many good shapers in our area. People have this warped view that you can't be a good shaper and be from the Northeast because you can't get enough boards under your belt. This has done a great disservice to us as surfers by preventing us from having many local options. We need to support the local surfers who are trying to make it or we will constantly be sending our money 3000 miles across the country or overseas.
A perfect example of how this mindset is hurting us as East Coast surfers.... Several years ago I was Ocean Hut surf shop. I mentioned to Tony (the owner) that I had just bought a great board from Brian Wynn and that he should consider carrying Brian's boards since he is a local shaper who makes quality product. Well Tony started this rant on how he wont ride or sell any boards from a shaper who doesn't have 10,000 (literally that number is a direct quote) boards shaped. That is a horrible injustice to Brian. He makes great boards. To not sell Brian's boards because of an absurd number like 10,000 boards. What I found out years later is that at one point Tony actually started his own label in California called Cream surfboards. So that was kind of the pot calling the kettle black... Anyway this is the mindset that hurts us all as east coast surfers.
Geez you guys get grumpy quick. So here it is:\r\n 1. As I do recall i said that the rocket was sick that mgarbutt had and was offering it at a good price, he wasn\'t asking $500 for it, which is the point I was trying to make, would i buy it for 200 yes, $375 probably, $500 no. I understand that there is a lot of time and effort going into making boards, but the shaper needs to compensate for what they are producing. If i were you i would be wanting to shape as many boards as possible to get better and the only way to do that is to make the price worth it for more people to buy your boards. Guys like me aren't the reason for you shapers not selling enough boards, its the prices, they need to be competitive because no matter what a consumer will always compare your boards to that of merrick, js, rusty, bing, hater, etc. Because at the end of the day they can walk into a surf shop and for a couple pennies more buy a professionally made board. 2. How can you make boards without buying and riding those of other shapers? Many of the new and up and coming shapers ride boards from other shapers to learn and gain experience. Tyler Hatzikian, Chris Christenson, Matt Calvani, Ryan Burch, Tyler warren all ride boards made buy other guys and not just them. So where do you get these boards from? 3. You can\'t even compare someone like ryan burch, tanner prarrie, robbie from gate hero, tyler warren, who make sick boards without the numbers, when they themselves are insane surfers and have insane surfers testing there boards. Yes I know who corky carol is, but if you are using him as you savior to tell you that your boards are good, well then thats fine I guess, but corky isn\'t necessarily putting boards through the works @ his age. If you were to hand your board to Dane Reynolds and he took it out and said he had fun on it are your board Dane Reynolds proven? 4. When you buy a board from a local surf shop you SUPPORT A LOCAL ECONOMY! gosh forbid you do that. 5. All you guys are doing is defending this title of surfboard shaper, which is childish all I did was offer a different view which is what forums like these are about. There is obviously ego\'s that are being hurt right now and any outsider reading this forum will obviously see it. When someone voices a different opinion you go into d-bag mode to defend yourselves when there is no defending necessary. P.S. I love how you guys think I have no clue as to what I am talking about
You don't. It is my personal policy and that of most of the guys I surf with to not support ANY shop that does not carry some boards by some established local shapers. THAT keeps the money local, not buying a CI designed for west coast waves and finished by Nguyen from Vietnam.
Saw my name was mentioned, please leave me out of this one. I am no shaper I just make boards for myself and friends for fun thats all. Thanks
We'll thats good for you. But you can't seriously tell me that a board from any large company does not work on east coast waves. Hello! Balaram Stack rides CI, Chris Kelly rides 21-13 by Uncle Mikes in Cali, Evan Gieselman rides CI, Jesse Hines rides Super, Brett Barley on JC's, all East Coast Rippers. I guess everyone walking into surf shops are just getting ripped the hell off! Damn surf shop owners carrying boards that work.
I thought this thread was about looking for a local east coast shaper, and that's why I posted. I guess we can all agree we will disagree and that's fine. I've learned that in order to stay in the board building game you have to believe in yourself and be honest about your product and sacrifice to keep going. I do this for the love and passion that is surfing, do I think I'm good? Yes, but I know I can get better and I have a long way to go. Jim Phillips once said if you think you learned everything about shaping it's time for you to quit. I used Corky as one example to show that after he surfed and shaped for Hobie for 25 years and now he rides my boards, I think he is more than qualified to judge my boards. Yes we are a proud bunch, us shapers and as we should, if it was easy everyone would make their own. The East Coast has always been stigmatized that we don't know anything about shaping and little by little we are proving it wrong. Ride what you want it's a free country, but to be fair if you never rode any of our local shapes and then to criticize our lack of shaping skills you have to understand how the local shapers will get heated. Now back to the original post Local Shapers???? My name is Tom Mahady and I'm a local shaper call me 908-415-4630 www.mahadysurfboards.blogspot.com www.mahadysurfboards.com Facebook= Mahady Surfboards
Wow I went away to Lynchburg VA for a wedding come home check this thread I had posted in and a large debate has commenced. A shaper is a craftsman, I dont really think it matters if he lives on the east coast or the west coast. I do think its important that your shaper knows what the surf is like in your local area, meaning he has intimate knowledge of the waves beacuse he has surfed that area in all types of swells. The shape and the power in which the wave breaks is very critical to dialing in a great board. I use a "lesser" known shaper, meaing he doesnt have a logo you see in a mag, but he has ghost shaped for one of the larger "logo" brand boards for years. Many of people who are riding this certain "logo" brand board are probably rididng his work. The shaper I use actually shapes his boards just like ...lost, Channel Island, JS, etc. He uses boardCAD and pays someone to cut his blanks on a CAM machine. THen he dose the real work, the final tuning that makes the magic happen. Just because someone doesnt use a hand planner doesnt mean he isnt a craftsman and cant make a great board. +++++To me the biggest advantage to using a "local" shaper is they understand the shape of the waves your riding, and you can talk to them in person. Also the craftsman can see the size of the guy who he is building a board for. Every surfer will buy more than one board in their life.. Go buy one from a guy can that can build your next board, then the next and the next. After you get your first "fill shaper name here" ask the shaper to gofor a surf, shapers do surf, go ride the board in front of the guy, let him see your abilites and what he just shaped you does in the water. I have been working with my shaper (now I cosider him a friend) for 6 months on a new grovel board for his line, we hashed out ideas what i wanted this board to do, and finally we got the first board made and I have had 10 R&D sessions on it, and its the most incredible board I have ever ridden in less than waist high surf. Thsi baord allows me to do things i have never done in small gutless surf. I have a round nose fish and a dumpster diver type squatty shortboard and i wont even ride those unless its stomach high now, this board has changed summer slop for me, and it took time and patience to get it right. I also have recieved a great education in what the different bottom contours, rockers, rail types, etc do to a board over the years of working with my shaper so now when i order a board i speak intellegently about what I want. If you are serious about surfng, and you want to improve your surfing and believe me a great baord under your feet will do that, and you want to enjoy every inch of the few waves we do get to ride, go "talk" to a shaper and for god sakes bring the man a beer, we all like beer!
This is EXACTLY why a board from a local shaper will beat out an off the shelf pro-model from a big name every time with KNOWLEDGEABLE surfers!! About 5 years ago I helped out a friend who owns a shop by purchasing a ...Lost SD II (the only non-Aston board I've owned in the last 20 years). The board worked pretty decently in the waves in South Jersey for anything waist high and up. Last year I took that same board to Jon Ashton and told him to copy the basic template but add some of his expertise of mid-atlantic waves. He made some subtle changes to the rails, tail and nose and I can tell you that this new board is hands above the ...Lost.
i did pretty much the same thing w/ brian wynn this past fall. last summer i picked up a ci fort knox for a trip i was taking. i had eschewed traditional hp shortboards for a long time, but that one, w/ its bonzer-based bottom contour & slightly different template, peaked my curiosity. so i grabbed it & rode it a bunch & loved it. it has done immeasurable good for my surfing as well. so in the fall i took it brian & asked him to more or less copy it, but make it a true 5 fin bonzer, along w/ his own personal tweaks & touches that make his board so great & not just simple carbon copies. well, i can say that the wynn absolutely a fantastic board...one of the best i've ever gotten from him, which is really saying something.
Hines and Barley are probably sponsored and don't pay for boards,and,Lynn Shell is a local shaper who most likely shapes the SUPER boards for Hines.most of the boards you'll see ridden in Buxton,Frisco or Hatteras are In The Eye 100% hand-shaped,no shaping machine, by Scott Busbey in Hatteras since 1977. that's 35 years' success.done start to finish by hand right there.The entire operation takes place on the premises,local Curtis Cromwell is Scott's full-time glasser,and is brilliant.if you ever surfed down there you'd see In The Eye significantly outnumbers all other boards on the beach and in the water.All ages ride them.walk down the beach from the motels past the cul-de-sac/yellow houses to the jetties,In The Eye everywhere you look.Scott is totally respected throughout the Island and in the water.Not grumpy or crotchety at all, and totally rips little shortboards, first one in and last guy out.Then there's Ricky Carroll,still east coast,respected and successful.and your Jim Phillips example has years of east coast shaping behind him.so,guess what?east coast shapers can be successful,significant and equal to or much better than all the 'respected' shapers elsewhere,and they can successfully stay here,too.locally made,hand-crafted surfboards,agreed.forget california.
This just goes to show what you don't know. Retail mark up on a surfboards is between $100 - $125. Lost, CI, Etc sell for $650 - $700. If a local shaper wholesales to a shop for $450, the shop can sell for $575 and still be well below the big labels. $450 is the minimum an established local shaper should be charging for a PU/PE shortboard. Less than that hurts the market by devaluing the product. Look, I don't need to justify anything to you. There's like fourteen other people in this thread telling you that you are wrong. But just to point out to you where you are mistaken. I will summarize: You are pulling a random number out of your a$s here. Please don't make statements you can't back up without first hand knowledge. Yes I can. Apparently so did the organizers of Sacred Craft, the largest surfboard expo in the country, when invited DK to shape at the shape-off. I will agree with your statement that 50 board is premature, but there are some very good shapers who have shaped a couple hundred boards and their quality deserves more respect than you are giving. The materials cost of shaping 50 boards alone is about $10,000. After investing that time and money in their education they have to look forward to people like you telling them they don't deserve to sell a board for a reasonable profit. I don't see any shaper in this thread calling themselves a guru or shooting down name brands made in the USA. This is something you fabricated. And the shapers are going to take insult to you telling them to shut up. And rightfully so. You are rude. Your parents should have taught you better. No one in this thread claimed they could compete with Jim Phillips. Again this is your fabrication. Have you ever priced a board shaped by Jim. I assure that none of the local shapers who post on Swellinfo would attempt to compare themselves to Jim and would not demand the same price. The problem is you did not present this perspective in your initial post. I bet more people would have agreed with you if you had approached your point without an accusatory tone or making gross assumptions on how many boards it takes to become a shaper. Have you ever been to Dane's blog, Marine Layer? Have you seen the disasters he shapes for himself. He himself even makes fun of his own shapes. And then surfs them better than anyone else can because he's a freak. And he says he has fun on them. Personally I find that a better validation of a shaper is to shape a board for someone who can actually benefit from a design tailored to their needs. You take a guy who is riding a big label board, shape him a custom that takes his surfing to the next level and you made more of an impact that Dane saying that he had fun on a board. Dane could surf a barn door or a coffee table better than you or I. Again you don't know what you are talking about. Surf shops do not make money on surfboards. The average mark up on a surfboard is $100. That board then sits in a shop for 6 months to a year while the shop looses that money on overhead. They make money on clothes which they can mark up by 200%, leashes, fins, traction pads, wetsuits etc that are all marked up well over 100% and turn over stock in a month or two. Surfers should definitely support a local shop and buy your supplies there, but buying a CI from Brave New World isn't really doing them a favor. Honestly the only person on this thread acting like a d-bag is you. You accusatory tone in your first post was what set everyone off arguing with you. You could have presented your opinion without bagging on anyone. Your general point is a valid point. Buying a board that has been validated by a team of riders all over the world is 100% a valid point. No one is arguing this point with you. They are arguing with you because you pulled some random BS about number of boards shaped and pricing that you can't substantiate. And, because your tone was rude. No one said this. Agian you are fabricating this. People only touted the benefits of a local shaper. Jeff Bushman moved to Hawaii. If he stayed here, you would have been telling him that he couldn't charge a reasonable price for his boards because he hasn't shaped 2000. Dude, what I've been trying to tell you is that your attitude, and assumptions, and not your opinion is what got you in trouble here. You could have presented your opinion better and you wouldn't have a ton of people arguing with you.
Hague! Hague Surfboards in Lewes, De. I recently bought a 6'6'' Hague and i have to say its one of the best built boards i have been on. Its EPS/Epoxy, and has great flex. Its so light and the damn thing turns on a dime. Check the video out, It sold it for me! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Wk9rPI5HR0
