do not understand the craze of CI, rusty, lost other mass produced boards

Turtle... From the outside looking in (west to east?) it sounds like you've got a good "big picture" perspective. Thanks for your insightful posting.

But I hope you have it wrong about the "holier then thou" attitude of the consumer. I like to think there's more to it than just blind faith.

Resale is another issue entirely... at least for the guys I know. Few if any make that a consideration when they're choosing a board. I'm thinking proximity may pay a role in that as well, but most guys here who are looking for a custom have pretty high standards and know at least SOMETHING about what they're buying. They're a discerning and educated consumer, skeptical about where the "herd" is leading them, and have at least the presence of mind to look beyond the brand. This, at least to me, is the opposite of narrowmindedness. Money and quality waves around here are equally short lived and hard earned.

 

this.

also, too many surfers are about image. so if dane reynolds is at the top of the list when it comes to being "cool" all of the kids are going to want his board, his brand, and his haircut.

 

i wonder if there is anyone else out there that pays no attention to professional surfing like me. i recognize the big names, but i never watch or research any contests.

 

the board I loved most was my Rusty Piranha. If you've ever seen an actual Preisendorfer shaped Piranha up close, the shaping is absolutely gorgeous and the rails are the most perfect I've ever seen. Unfortunately, mine was a tuflite and, as many of you know, they are way too light and extremely slow...but the tuflite Piranha is a 100% Preisendorfer computer clone. In fact, I kept riding it much longer than I should because the shape was just so amazingly beautiful.

I also tried a hand shaped EPS "Rusty" Piranha, just to see if it was any faster...but it was almost as light and still too slow. To make matters worse, this one was shaped by a ghost shaper and had none of the finesse the Preisendorfer clone had, especially in the rails.

(^this phase was just after clark foam went under and everyone was trying new things)

point is, these big name shapers really are (were) the cream of the crop

 

Ci's have great glass jobs. just purchased my one due to the whole $$$ issue, but theyre worth it.

 

CI's have the worst and cheapest glass job in the industry. They've always been glassed buy Hawkinsen in Santa Barbara and it's always been among the worst glassing I've ever seen. Over the years they have never improved. Rusty is one of the best shapers I've ever seen (I mean I've seen him shape a board) don't know about the quality of the glassing on his boards. I have no respect for lost surfboards. Don't care to go in to it except to say the owner is an ass.

 

this is one of the most patently false things i have read on this forum. as big an operation as ci is, no one glass house could support their volume. ci contracts out to a large # of glass houses, including moonlight, one of the most highly respected glassing organizations in the country, as well as mystery, haakonsen, guru & a few others, & they do a good amount in-house as well. their quality control is top-notch also...say what you will about the company itself, but the owners of moonlight will testify to just how strict ci is when it comes to who they allow to glass their boards.
rusty is a fantastic shaper & really knows is craft, but has fallen victim a little to the "model" craze, i think, & is playing catch-up. 20 years ago, the r dot brand was one of the foremost names in surfboards, but has since been replaced by ci & lost. personally, i think his boards are a bit low volume & are thin for the various shapes widths & lengths, but that's just my own opinion.
matt biolos (lost's co-founder & lead shaper) is probably one of the most progressive shapers in the industry today. he may be an ass (i've never met him myself, but liked how he called out the young us pros on instagram back in the spring), but he is an innovative designer, good marketer, & has never claimed pro-level ability for himself, which (true or not) draws a lot of average joes to his shapes. you may not like matt as a person, but his ability as a shaper & designer are hard to match.

 

Surely you jest!!!.......My local shaper says his ding repairs are 95% CI's from poor glassing and a friend has a new one for sale he's only ridden a couple times but looks like it's 10 years old.

 

Thats actually a bit hard to imagine. I never owned a CI but have surfed with friends who do for as long as i can remember, and ridden many of them, liked the ones I rode, and most of them were well over a year old and holding up as you would expect a light poly board to hold up. I've done ding repairs on my friends CIs and their boards werent noticably different than other lightly glassed performance shapes when i repaired them and a lot better than some.

Given this:

what is the theory? CI instructs these well established glassers to do especially weak horrible jobs on CI boards? Nothing about it makes sense...people arent buying a Dumpster Diver or Fred Rubble because it weighs a few ounces less, and it doesnt save any money in production to draw out an ounce or two of resin, or sand out the hotcoat a bit thinner.

 

I'm willing to bet that a good portion of the ci haters out there heard someone bashing ci & decided that it was the cool thing to do & hopped on the bandwagon w/out anymore info. Kinda sad. It's easy for those who don't know any better or don't have any insight into how the industry works to make ill informed decisions or assumptions. Yes, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but not to pass it off as fact w/out providing proof.

 

To be more specific of at least one glasser ( The Lab ) for CI has put out many poor glass jobs. Also just because a glassing company has a good reputation doesn't mean all its employees do good work. I don't hate CIs and have owned a Flyer that was a great riding board but the glass didn't hold up. No patch was put on a fin box resulting in it falling out so I have first hand experience as well. The attached pic is a new CI ridden a couple of times by someone who is 140lbs. Full of craters. It's for sale.....would you buy it.........




After a good nights sleep I do have another reason why my shaper does so much ding repair on CIs.....It is a brand sold in every shop in my area and purchased by every grom around wanting to ride what the pros ride so of course he's gonna see a lot of them for repair.

 

I have a mixed quiver of Plus One’s (Local San Diego Company. Hand shaped in OB), Sharpe Eye’s and custom boards (Addict Surfboards, by Micah Shannahan)…

I like them all for different reasons, but I have moved away from getting my “high performance shortboards” built custom… Simply because, the quality was always on point, but often times, I don’t get “exactly” what I want from them. For instance, my shaper has hand shaped thousands of boards… He made me a “Addict Team Rider” board and named it Baby Talk… It was SICK! Light weight, 5”10x18.75 squash that just ripped. Light but solid, could launch and hold a line. The board got stolen and ended up in an art museum in La Jolla actually. I went back to him and asked him to re-produce the board… Although Baby Talk 2 was a sick board, but was NOT like Baby talk one… Something just never was the same about it… Slightly more narrow nose etc…

Plus Ones are designed for high performance, San Diego surf… they are not the more durable boards, but they are built to shred. I also disagree that people need boards built by a local shaper or someone who surfs the same waves… My Plus One’s work the EXACT same in San Diego, Mexico, Ocean City MD and Hilton Head… When the waves are decent, a great board is a great board….

My Sharp Eye disco is currently my favorite board… Mass produced, yes… But it is EXACTY what I want. It lets you bust out airs on a knee high wave, turn on a dime, but also hold up in surf a few feet over head… That’s what people want. High performance boards that are ready to use in almost all situation….
So, while my shaper still hand shapes my Fish, my quad and a bunch of other Beautiful boards, when it comes to the day to day shred stick, I stick with what I KNOW will work, and that is a sharpe eye, or a CI dumpster diver….

It is what it is. I know some local shapers can do the same stuff, but I don’t want to spend $500 and take a chance… I can walk in a shop, grab one of these boards, feel the rails, check the concaves with my own eyes and immediately know if shes is the one….

 

Great post

Maybe one of the sheep will be converted to a more sophisticated surfer by reading other opinions.

~Brian
www.greenlightsurfsupply.com
Shape Your Surfing Experience

 

http://forum.surfermag.com/forum/showthreaded.php?Cat=0&Number=1902256&an=&page=0&vc=1

 

There's a reason guy et paid to put stickers on their boards... Because it works. People ride Merricks because Kelly and Dane do.
I have boards from a ton of shapers. Local and not so local. I haven't had an "off the rack" board in a long time. Every magic board I've ever had was custom.

But I have mixed feelings on this debate.
If you want a Dumpster Diver (I've never had one), why not get a Merrick? CI created a design that people seem to like. Why not support the innovator and buy that model instead of a "knock off".. Why is the surf industry different than any other. I can go to Canal Street and get my wife a Fucci bag too.

That being said, you should support your local shapers (if they are good). They know your conditions and surf them as well... Just make sure you hurry up. They may blow up and get famous. Then it won't be "cool" to ride their boards anymore and you will just be a sheep

 

Crazy...that sucks...but you know what...reminds me of a board i picked up just before the Ernesto swell in 2006. Locally shaped custom, probably would have benefited from another week of curing. But the waves were pumping, i just had to ride the new board, LOVED IT, and by the end of weekend it looked pretty much like that picture. Thing is, after three years of heavy use later it didnt really look much worse, so maybe he should just hold onto it...might have a lot more life left than it looks.

 

If you know nothing about surfboards, you can go to the rack and pick out a CI or Lost or Rusty and pick up a board that's perfectly fine... maybe even great. But it will be a crap shoot for you. If you're lucky, it'll suit both your style of surfing, and your waves, and you'll likely be mostly happy with it. They're proven by competent surfers in quality waves.

But if you know something about board design, your local waves, and are realistic about your abilities, the option of going custom is a no-brainer. The ability to choose your bottom contours, rocker, thickness, rail shape, fin system... is a means to an end - surfing better and having more fun!

You yourself may or may not be able to shape and glass your own board (although EVERYONE should try it at least once), but if you take surfing seriously at all, there's no excuse for not knowing what does what in terms of board design. And you should be able to decide for yourself if you want, as Greenlight Brian puts it, "strong or light" when it comes to core density and glass bill.

At least that makes you an informed consumer.

 

I have to throw my "rant" in because I am very passionate about board design and board building. I am forutnate that I have gained a friend and worked with one of the best shapers to come off the East Coast in my opinion anyway. In fact he is currently "ghost/finish shaping" for ...lost, T. Patterson, Hammish Graham, and also teaching John Robertson of Robertson Surfboards (see Surfline's San Clemente shaper alley) the finer points of shaping.
My shaper uses a computer, which I freaking love! Not so much for consistency in replicating boards, but because I now get Volume as a relative dimension. In the last few years I have been able to find my "starting point" volume which allows me to try different shapes, bottom contours, outlines, etc and I always can refer back to a volume that I know works for me. For example:
I know that my 5'-5 x 19 1/4" x 2-3/8" RNF has 26.5 L of volume and that works perfectly for me in a shorter smaller wave performance board (knee to head high). I am 37 years old, a father of 2, a desk jockey, and Im 5'-8" and 155-160 lbs in board shorts.
I know that my 26.5 Volume was pretty much perfect for me for in the widest range of waves. I wanted a winter shortboard one that performed in waist to 2 foot overhead cold water surf, easy to paddle and would float me well in a 4/3, boots, gloves, hood, etc. I dont get to surf as much in winter due to weekedays its dark before I get out of the office. So unless its a great swell where I am taking off work for it, I am surfing weekends in the "daylight saving time" months. My shaper and I agreed that soaking wet in all that gear probably adds 10 to 15 pounds but due to decreased flexibility in paddling and colder water not allowing me to paddle as well we should design my winter board for me as if I were 20 pounds heavier. So using that "starting volume of 26.5 L" we came up with a board 6-0" shortboard with low entry rocker for paddling purposes and the voulme is at 28.3L. The added length of the rail and overall voume works great to help float me for paddling in ful winter gear. I can still surf the board fairly well, meaning that even though its more bouyant with extra vomume its desinged so that I can still get it on rail, lots of drive , etc.

I am your typical average surfer. I can generate good down the line speed surfing off my front foot, I can get vertical and crack it off the top and throw a fan but I need the right section to do so, I can manage to get out onto the shoulder and do a "fairly tight yet weak " round house, I can throw the tail (may not be able to bring it back around all the time) but..., stuff like that. I dont fit 6 tight pocket turns in on anaverage wasit high wave, i dont throw airs, air reverses on every knee high closeout section, I dont do carving 360s. I am dead on average, better than alot of guys in the water, and worse than alot of guys in the water.

Personally I like having the ability to tweak my equipment like any pro would, in fact the my shaper actually finish shapes some pro's boards from time to time. ANy surfer know matter your ability will benefit from getting to know a shaper and sticking with him. I dont get a magic board every time, I dont even like some of the boards I get, buts its because I experiment with shapes and designs.

I think that everyone saying that the pressure dings and cracks in the CIs and bigger brands is because they have poor glass jobs, but I dont think that is the case. WRV is no where near a "big brand" and their boards over the last few years have some of the worst build quality I have ever seen, but its not the glass job its the blank. The blanks are crap. I have seen so many WRVs and otehr boards that use the same type of blank and the stringers look like arch bars from how bad the decks are crushed after a few months. I am not talking about guys stomping airs, I am talking about guys just pumped to get down the line.
Board construction is as important as the shape to me. The blank type, brand of the blank, type of resin, type of glass cloth, the laminator's skills, etc all contribute to a good board, its almost more important than the shape itself.

I am an average surfer, do I need a a full on Quiver for the Mid Atlantic, of course not. I love surfing, I love surfboards, so i have a few.
Would I buy a CI, ...lost, JS etc. YesI would. I would only do it though because I wanted to try out a new "board tech" such as hydroflex, a proctor carbon rail matrix footprint thingy, etc.

If I want a standard Poly or EPS construction, I am going to my guy for a board.

What happens if I cant get my guy to shape me a board because he's so busy?
I do my research find out what the local shapers in my area expertise are, find out what type of blanks they are suing, how and what kidn of glass are they using for builds etc. I go feel a few of their boards up. Then I pick the shaper I feel understands what I am telling him I want the best. Its fantastic to have an hour long conversation about design. Shapers are about the only people I know that are as passionate about board design as I am.