Manasquan Localism (assumed)

You're double counting quite a bit. The New York Metro Area includes NYC, Long Island, Hudson Valley area, etc., but it also includes Newark, Jersey City, Paterson, Elizabeth, Trenton and Edison, which are the six largest cities in NJ. Add to that six of the seven largest cities in CT (Bridgeport, New Haven, Stamford, Waterbury, Norwalk and Danbury). Allentown, PA is also in that count.

Population of NY State: 19.5 million
Population of NYC: 8.3 million
Population of NJ: 8.9 million

The 24 million you referenced is basically all of Jersey plus coastal areas of NY State.

Straight from Wiki, baby. Take it as gospel.

Lastly, most of the CA population is LA? What about SF? Mad heads up that way.

 

More people as percentage of the general population surf in southern ca than san fran area. Yes the metro area combines fairfield county of ct. If anyone surfs there, their just as likely to go to nj for a surf session as ri or long island. It's near nothing, just like sacramento, ca, to a surf break. 2.8 miiion in Sacramento metro. Even if the population was more in California, there is still 7 times more coastline and way more breaks per mile than NJ, due much of nj being replenished/having bad sanbars. Let's say population of metro area within reasonable driving distance to nj breaks is 30 million. Ok 7 x 30 = 210 million population required in Cali to be equal in ratio of general population of potential surfers to coastline. That doesn't even include the fact that there are less breaks as well as having less coastline. Then add in the fact that swells are rare in nj vs daily in Cali. Just look what happens in ri when there's a big swell at the rock reefs in the fall.

 

Complain to them, not to the internet. You big pus. Man thats what surfing is all about, stick your nose in the peak and fight for it!

 

can't wait to surf there

 

Ok people, again: IS THIS A POPULATION CENSUS FORUM BASED ON REGIONAL DATA OR A SURF FORUM? WHERE ARE THESE OVERPOPULATED BREAKS IN CALIFORNIA THAT DONT HAVE NEARBY EMPTY BREAKS WITH BENEFIT OF NO CONTINENTAL SHELF? WHY ARE WE STILL DEBATING POPULATION WHEN THERES A WHOLE COASTLINE OF BREAKS THAT HAVE VACANCY ON PEAKS WITH YOUR NAME ON THEM?

My apologies for shouting. But you're still arguing population data that's irrelevant to the land of a million surf breaks. Do you think I'd be going out every there month to month and a half if I couldn't score daily there with ease? People, c'mon people! What's the attrition rate for people ages 18-34 in South Dakota squared by the elderly population of West Palm Beach, FL minus white Anglo-Saxon Protestants in Vermont? That matters just as much to any of this.

 

HAHA look what I started. Wow.

 

Bro, you can't take full credit for perpetuating the collective rants and objections to those rants though. SI brahs love them a good localism/wetty/barrell/Hello/overpopulated break/kookery/N-S/contrails/banner thread now and then. Nothing new.

 

more people surf per capita in cali than the east coast, and more people in NYNJ combined than in AUS, but AU breaks are mad crowded on east coast of OZ, more so than EC of USA, riddle me that waveless number cruncher?

 

Can I take this in a different direction?

For those who have surfed a fair amount on both coasts, does one have "easier" waves than the other? Compare a head-high day in Jersey/RI, etc to a head-high day in SoCal. Let's not be too specific...keep in general...does one coast have more user-friendly waves than the other?

Dear moderator: bear with me...this does relate to the OP. My theory is that user friendly waves lead to more kooks in the water, which exacerbates the localism issue.

 

MA you rabble rouser you!

 

MA depends, beachies are a bit steeper and lack a channel, making for an intermediate/advance wave while points (depending) are a bit easier to paddle out and softer on take off. Obviously their are exceptions to both rules and since the EC has all short period beachies with the rocky exceptions up north, Id say it is easier to surf a head high wave out west than here due to easier paddle outs, however, every dog has its day and its hard to compare (I mean a 2xoh day at blacks or obx will be a challenge no matter what, but longer period might make getting out at blacks easier if you catch a lull)

Also, yall typically get 7-11 sec period on EC (short time between sets) while forerunners (typically on WC) in the 18 sec time leave long lulls between sets.

just my .02

 

Dont surf manasquan you can easily avoid the idiotic people that claim that mellow ass wave. Im sure all the jetties to the north were just as good or better.

 

I think localism is most closely related to scarcity. I've found low levels of localism in CA. If it's abundantly there, I've yet to see it more than the odd TC or two. Waves are an abundant and constant flowing resource at those breaks. Was at Seaside last weekend and while I didn't paddle out to the Point, I believe the accuracy of tales of localism there. There's not a ton of accessible breaks in those parts and certainly not a ton of what's considered the best left-hander in North America. If those peaks get overcrowded then the chargers who've earned their stripes on a wave of consequence that is among the best in existence will no longer have their sessions to themselves or their clean, pure, and natural break and its surroundings. These people (Seaside locals) are also more rustic and withdrawn from society than breaks in many other places (not all) and that lends itself to those who keep to themselves and prefer not to be interrupted in any way.

If we are in a daily or weekly routine and someone disrupts it to the point of threatening its continuity in our lives, we are not going to react positively. I'm talking as simple as your seat at the local breakfast spot you're a regular at. Now, apply this to a spiritual practice of our existence that is often an integral part of our identity that we have eternal gratitude for. Don't be surprised if you get an aggressive response from those protecting what they view as theirs.

TC's abound everywhere, thus, pure arrogance and excessive/disproportionate sense of entitlement can also heavily contribute to localist behavior. But that's more in the deviant category than the previous self-preservation tendency I spoke of that is natural to humans and other organisms.

When you say "user-friendly", that can mean several different things. For example, all the people I talk to that have tried surfing when they've visited Hawaii or another vacation destination where surfing to them on their partying or recreational vacation was like a massage or yoga session to us on our surf trips. The waves those people are on are arguably user-friendly to the point of being foolproof on a 9-10' foamie or Bic. That person isn't going to like surfing if they have to eat it in any way that we are accustomed to. Any wave like that isn't typically going to be frequented by a half-serious charger unless they aren't looking for adrenaline or injury. I see localism being next to nothing here because that's like going to a public beach and telling people to get out of the shore break because they're jumping in waist-high waves to swim and wade in and calling it "your wave" because you want to do the same. Nonsensical.

Then there's Trestles user-friendliness that enables a beginner-intermediate (am I there yet? what's the difference?) to get some rides on awesome waves that have far less consequence most days than Honeyton. Rippable faces nearly all the time. A great wave that's not automatic for a good ride unless your mechanical input is good but one that gives you as much opportunity to ride an amazing wave with high-maneuverability as any such wave in the world will. However, there are plus-set bombs rolling in during a bigger swell that take it from chest to OH or from OH to DOH. If you don't duck dive that properly (which is an acquired and invaluable skill as you guys know) then the last thing you'll call that is "friendly". At a break like this, the skillful challenges that do still exist even though it's a kind and fun as hell break weed some of the kooks out. The remainder of localist enforcement on kookery and outsiders I'd have to say is related to how big the break is and how plentiful rides are for how many surfers. If we are talking one or just a couple peaks, then competition and enforcement can be higher.

Then there's the local EC break where what you see is what you get. Some days are flat, many are choppy, occasionally some are bombing either stormy or clean, and then you have user-friendly (3-5ft, 2-4mph off shores, proper swell angle, proper period for the break). At these fickle breaks, everybody and their neighbor's mistress's dog is gonna be looking to jump on those 10-20 days a year. User-friendly there can incite high localism.

 

I live in mission beach and surf alone EVERY Morning.

 

I was at Matunuck on 11/1 for that perfect day of 75 degrees and great swell. It was shoulder-head at least and clean, clean, clean and constant. Very mellow and rippable all day and you Rhodey guys remember this swell. It was sick. The east coast Trestles that day was nearly identical to the west coast Trestles when I was there two days later. Same size, same mellow forgiveness and I bet the period was within a few seconds of each other since it was a moderate swell for WC standards but we were probably in the mid-length period (which is long period for EC) due to ground swell we don't often get in NE. Point being, EC and WC waves can feel similar on occasion depending on where you are and what the various conditions are at both spots. When the scientific ingredients are similar, the product will be similar. MA, you say not to get specific (hard for Spicoli not to!) but you're asking for an absolute comparison between two very different complexions - listing of variables is necessary here if you want a valid answer to consider.

That said, the first Pacific waves I was ever in was down in ES. Rude awakening. I had NOT ever felt the lack of a continental shelf and what that means to wave speed, pitch, lip, and overall action. Walls that looked nothing like closeouts on the paddle in and then the last peek back to see if it changed ended up morphing real quick once it reached me. No longer did I feel the noticeable, yet steady lift of the tail like on the EC once it picks you up. These things were just jacking straight up with the floor being sucked into the back, making for not only a much different feeling wave (you don't "feel" as much with something that's overwhelmingly faster), but a different looking one when you look down and see air rather than an angled face.

What I felt were mostly closeouts probably weren't, I just needed to spring to my feet much, much faster upon any initial recognition that I'd been lifted by the wave. I watch some films of my takeoffs from out in SD compared to here and you literally see yourself lifted up an elevator. That tells me I either need to get right to feet and stomp on front foot while looking where I'm going (like dropping in on a pool when skating) or give another hard paddle or two (I like double-arm for final stroke) to get down the face away from the lip and then still takeoff pretty quick. What I've deduced is that the first method is often necessary as the speed of the wave and subsequent lift and jacking up is usually happening faster than any paddle will propel you and you have a deficit of speed which doesn't get you away from the lip like you wanted.

A comparison that's coming to mind right now is driving in a motor vehicle. You can go the same speed in the same car on two different roads. The ride and handling of the vehicle is going to vary quite a bit if one road is smooth pave and the other is granular and rocky. Same for if one is wet and the other is dry, level or on a steep decline, straightaway versus a bit of a wind. The list goes on. Consider finally, that the cars are the same size and weight and one was a 5.0L engine while the other a 2.3L. When you tap the gas on that torquier engine it's gonna feel all different.

There was a good thread a couple weeks back talking about this and the learned doctors of this forum dropped the knowledge on us. They had great points so you may want to look back at those. "Hard waves" and "easy waves" can come from just about anywhere. Continental shelf is the difference in EC waves brah, and there are other places across the pond that have a shelf as well. Conditions can align to produce similar experiences on different coasts like I first mentioned on 11/1 and 11/3 but when that shelf's not there, whole different feeling. At least for me.

If some/none of this makes sense to the learned doctors here, please clarify so I may revise my thinking.

[video=youtube;hh1oaumUoyc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hh1oaumUoyc[/video]

 

That's awesome. First time I ever surfed was up the road at Swami's. Not out at the point, but the beach break right there that no one even bothers with. I counted at least 4 insanely hot girls doing yoga, and thought to myself "I wish they all could be California girls".

 

Solid stuff as usual, Spicoli. Gracias.

Every time I surf I learn something new. When I began surfing I took two lessons, and I still watch some short instructional clips on youtube if I find flaws in my mechanics. What I keep coming back to is that all of these instructors FAIL to hit on the most critical details. I guess they leave those holes for us to fill with a) experience, and b) forum participation. haha!

Gotta say, reading all these threads makes me much more of a cerebral surfer.

 

California does have a shelf. Its just in the lower part of the state. Makes the waves a bit more rolly, less jacked. Once you get above Pt. Conception is technically where you leave southern cal and the shelf stops (also where the currents change and the water temps drop). Thats why theres oil rigs offshore in Santa Barbara.

You cant really group all of california as one state. Theres a HUGE difference between north and south. Thats why generally when you meet a Californian they will specify what part of the state they are from.

 

Thanks for smacking that troll "makeitstop" with some truth. I have him on ignore so I only see what he says when someone quotes him.

 

Yeah blacks is real mushy LOL