Perfect! I'll send you my email in just a minute. One more quick question. More for my understanding and curiosity as i will try a more basic concave first. But on swaylocks i saw alot of guys mentioning shaping the single concave first then shaping the double within it, when blending a single into a double obviously. This doesn't make sense to me. So your removing material from the stinger to shape in a single. But on a double the stringer is at rail level or slightly below. So shaping in a double within a single after doing the single first just doesn't make sense. Multiple people mentioned this method so it's got to be me misunderstanding. Any clarification on that would make my head stop hurting. Thanks again LB.
I cut to basic length. Plane to rocker and close to thickness. Cut outline. Square outline (perhaps the most important step). Get to finished thickness. Do rails. Add bottom contours. Clean up stringer. Clean up scratches on blank with soft pad. You're describing a triple concave vs a double.
In a single-to-double concave, you shape the single, then cut in the doubles inside the single, on either side of the stringer. If you put a straight edge across your board from rail to rail, the stringer is lower throughout the entire concave array... single and doubles. The stringer is only higher than the rail if you shape vee (or any other displacement feature) into the bottom. If you want to shape a "concaved vee" into a bottom, you shape the vee first, then scour out the concaves into the panels on either side of the stringer.
I built my first board about 3 years ago. Made it out of an old longboard with a broken nose. Since then I have shaped 2 more boards and restored a few others. Here are a few things I learned, beginner to beginner: Epoxy is very forgiving for first time shapers, just make sure you measure by WEIGHT and NOT VOLUME. I have found even the "fast" is still slow compared to poly. I used "floor sander" sand paper, and attached it to a section of 2x4 the same length as the paper, for rough shaping. You buy it in the tool rental section at Home Depot. It can remove a ton of material very quickly. I personally have never used a power planer. The heavy grit floor sander paper (i think it was #6 paper, could be mistaken) removed material plenty fast enough. I used a small manual planer for the stringer. Save bottom contours for board number 2 or 3. Not because of shaping or glassing the contours, but because of sanding. Finish sanding can be super frustrating, so do yourself a favor and keep it simple on the first build. Only use power on the flat sections, and do everything else by hand. On the sanding subject, buy a soft (yellow) sanding pad specifically for surfboards, and the best quality paper you can find. I use a $35 sander from harbor freight, it's no Makita, but it's adequate. I lucked out and was able to borrow a fin jig/router. This really made life easy, being able to install futures boxes into my shapes. I have never done glass-ins, but they look a hell of a lot harder than putting in boxes. Greenlight has a great template for fin placement. Buy the following things in bulk: Rubber gloves, dust masks, razor blades, painters tape (I use the blue, it works great, just don't completely cheap out and you will be fine. There is no need to spend like $8 on a roll of masking tape when you are just learning). Finally, not sure if it has been mentioned yet but Meguiars #7 "show car glaze" works great for high-speed polishing after you wetsand. That s*** is like magic for making the board shine. Above all, take your time, push through the frustrations, and finish the f***ing job! There are few things that compare to carving a line on something you made yourself.
LB, when i said higher, i meant with board bottom up. I guess in shaper worked that's still considered lower. Is the stringer not "lower" in a single then a double? Isn't that what makes a double a double? This is what I'm not grasping. If you shape the double into a single. That stringer is lower due to the shaped single. Here's a random picture that might explain my confusion..... And Headhigh! Thanks for the insight! Luckily i work with my tools and hands all day. I got quality tools and a stock pile of gloves, tape, blades, everything like that. If i learned anything from ding repair and my job in general, it's to plan ahead. Don't rush. Measure twice cut once type of thing.
Just grabbed everything i think I'll need... Ditched the starter kit idea and decided to piece it together myself. Actually saved myself money. -Got an EPS blank -Epoxy resin and hardener with additive F -Grabbed the shaping tool starter kit plus a few extras. Spokeshave, 12in grasp, 24in rasputin, rail runner, and surform -Fiberglass. 4 and 6 oz. 6+4 deck 4 bottom -Leash plug -Fin box Everything else as far as squeegees, brushes, sand paper, calipers, yada yada, i already have or can easily pick up. Still debating on the whole epoxy resin from suggestions iv gotten here. Might change that up but just figured I'd throw it in the cart so i don't forget and can always switch it out. Am i missing anything major? Going to wait a few days before placing the order. Run through it all in my head to make sure im good to go. Knowing myself ill get excited, and if i forgot somthing I'll try and make due and screw somthing up. Ps- greenlight has a planer. 70 bucks. Thinking of throwing that on there as well. Wanted to check out HF first though.
You don't mention how you plan to route in the hole for the fin box. I use a plunge router with a 3/8" pencil bit and built a plywood jig that i clamp on the board to slide the router around in to cut the finbox trench. When the bit is mowing the stringer go slowly and gently...its easy to shatter or splinter the stringer trying to take too much meat out quickly. I imagine there are a bunch of ways to do this, ranging down to just a long process with dremel tool and the right bit. My advice is not to try and freehand it. Whatever method you choose, fabricate a jig so the cut is just a perfect rectangle that the finbox slides into snugly and to the proper depth. Get piece of cheap foam that is big enough to test out the fin cut process....don't make your shaped and laminated board become a casualty of the super steep part of the learning curve.
I already own a router so i didn't mention it. Also own a dremel but router seemed to be the preferred way so don't plan on using it. Also already own a sander. Planned on making my own jig how you describe. Already got a hole saw for the leash plug. Will definitely practice on some spare foam. Great idea. Im used to using all these tools but never on foam so I'll try and get a feel before diving in for sure.
If you’d like, I can put together a rig for a rigid work stand that will work with your base. Prolly cost $25 to ship down to you. The supports are locked in place with bed frame rail brackets - a lot less flexible than what you have now. Only say this because the more solid the work stand, the better and easier. Especially polishing.
Or, get two five gal buckets, an 8’ 4”x4”, and half a 2’x4’. Some foam rubber weather stripping with glue backing. And a 50lb bag of quick mix cement. Cut the 4”x4” in half, mix the cement and fill the buckets 2/3 up with the 4”x4” in the bucket before you pour cement in. Keep them upright and in the center of the buckets. Let that kick off for a day, then cut the 2x4 in half, and lie the pieces flat on top of the 4”x4” and screw them on to make a T . Put the foam rubber on top of those and then just set each stand up to your desired width for your blank. They will NOT move around, and when your glassing, just put a block of 2x4 on top of each to raise the board above the arm so glass can drape over rails. I can draw you a few pics if needed, but legit, it’s about $50 in materials and maybe an hour to put together. Then when your done, they can be moved and put away with no issues.
What you're seeing there in the pic is a true double concave. Simple, double concave... not a single-to-double. What you've heard is accurate. Double concaves alone are what you see there. A single-to-double is a double shaped into a single, so the stringer is below the rail line. Concaved vee is a panel vee (what you see in that pic) with concaves cut into the panels (not pictured). In a concaved vee, the stringer is above the rail line. And to make matters more confusing... the term "triple concave" came from the original attempts at a single-to-double, where a single was shaped in the middle of the board, and a double was shaped aft of that, through the fins. That design didn't last long... and evolved into what we're talking about now - single-to-double. As a starting point, just to kind of get your head around some generalities... The single starts typically 6-12" from the nose (depending upon entry rocker), gradually getting deeper until it hits max depth at about halfway between the midpoint and the leading edge of the side fins, putting the deepest point between the surfer's feet. The single then quickly fades to nothing about 3.5" from the tail, right around where the trailing edge of the center fin is on a thruster. The double starts where the single hits max depth, gets deeper until they hit max depth at the trailing edge of the rail fins, then fades to nothing where the single ends. THIS IS A GENERAL, MIDDLE OF THE ROAD MAP of a typical single-to-double concave array. From there you shorten, lengthen... shift max depth points... whatever, based on your design goals.
Calipers. Make them yourself out of louan. And please... for God's sake... pull the trigger on that planer
Ok i got it now and see where my confusion was stemming from. Thanks for the clarification. Not going to try somthing like that on the first board, but it was bothering me that i couldn't understand haha. Thanks again. Already got calipers but actually think I'll make my own specifically for shaping. And yeah that planer is cheap enough im going to throw it on. The HF one is a bit cheaper but only slightly so im just get the one from greenlight with my order. Going to grab the planer then upgrade once i get the hang of things. Going to be pulling the trigger on the purchase at some point today. Going to start working on the template this weekend/early next week. Iv done some rough sketches on paper to get an idea of nose and tail widths im looking for. Mr B, i appreciate the offer! I think the rack you made me will actually be alright for now. At least for the shaping process. Was thinking the same idea as you for a glassing rack. That's easy stuff though and can be put together quickly. I'll worry about that once i get to setting up my space.
Bassmon....BUY THE FREAKING PLANER!!! That will help you succeed, which in turn, will ENCOURAGE you to build more boards, mo' betta!!
Placed order. Planer is bought. All tools and supplies only cost about 400. About the same price or slightly cheaper than a custom. Difference being on every board after this all i need is supplies since I'll have the tools already, which is 3/4s of the price i paid. Excited to get to work. Already told a few friends to think of what they want but keep exceptions low. Want to shape me one then shape a few for friends to practice and hone in the skill. Will keep you guys updated along the way with pictures. Im sure I'll have a few questions that pop up once i get to it. Thanks again for the advice and support fellas
Great...two things here: -make a little plywood jig for cutting the leashcup hole. get a square of plywood maybe 8" square cut a hole through it with the hole saw, and then hold that jig to the board when cutting in the leash hole so the saw cant slide around while youre drilling -epoxy resin is notorious for getting warm/hot and bubbling when installing the leash cup because there is a pool of resin in the confined space. doing this step in a cool environment and even having a fan to cool the board while the resin sets up is a good idea.
Oh here's something else: When you mix up a big batch of epoxy for the lamination, get it out of the cup as fast as you can! Otherwise that s*** will start smoking! I always thought... how stupid do you have to be to let a batch of resin get so hot it would smoke... next thing I know I'm running across the yard with a smoking hot cup of resin. Wasted a lot of pigment that day but I learned an important lesson. Anything more than about an inch in your cup has the potential to kick super fast.
Both excellent points. You can minimize the heating issue by making the hole just big enough to fully set the hardware. This goes for fin boxes, leash plugs, foot strap hardware, etc. No extra resin = no extra heat. You can also use filler material... cabosil (NOT microballoons) to add strength and volume, and reduce the amount of resin needed. Again... less resin, less exotherm.
