Trump / FBI / Russians

My question was simple, and wasn't addressed in any of your earlier posts.

To repeat, Why did Trump wait until the Dems controlled congress to make his demands on border funding?

Do you have an opinion on this, or only more personal insults?

 

Where did I ever use the word "crisis", or agree that the term is correct?

But please do go back to whichever page that Sigmund provided his graph, and take note of the dates and numbers provided.

Notice the huge climb of illegal immigration during the period between 1987 through 2003.

1987 was the Reagan Amnesty year. The new laws were supposed to halt illegal immigration, yet it rose exponentially until 2003, when Dubya doubled manpower and added the first true barrier fencing (or "wall").

Those numbers speak for themselves, no matter what kind of spin that clueless dolts like Sigmund continue to twist and contort.

 

The current administration has labeled it a crisis. Didn't mean to insinuate you did.

 

I did look at the graph Sig provided and I don't really see what the crisis is? That graph shows us at our lowest level since around 1972. Was immigration a huge problem then?

It also looks like the number decreased a lot more in 2011 than it did during any point in the Bush admin. Bush may have put up some barriers but it looks like Obama's massive Border Patrol hirings were more effective.

 

My opinion is that he was waiting for results of the midterms.

I believe that advisers convinced him that he wouldn't get the necessary votes, even with a majority Congress, because forcing a partisan vote on such an issue could be bad juju for future candidates.

After the midterms would've been more palatable.

If the Repubs maintained a majority, Trump could argue that Americans agree with his policies and, therefore, he could act freely by stating he had a mandate.

If the Dems took over any part of Congress, then he could hold DACA as a bargaining chip. If the House agreed to any part of funding the "wall", then Trump gets his "wall" and a bipartisan agreement, the Dems get to crow about keeping DACA, and everybody is relatively happy.

If the Dems don't come to the table, then Trump lets DACA lapse, and blamed the Dems for their failure to negotiate. Trump may not get his wall, but the Repubs now have a solid foundation to blame Dems for being soft on border security and are in favor of open borders while also supporting activity contrary to statutory law.

Honestly though Sig, you probably don't have to worry about a new fence or wall, particularly in parts of Texas. New fencing or reinforcements may be built in surrounding stated like Arizona, California and West Texas. Reason being is that fencing would be difficult due to terrain in Big Bend National Park. of

Other problems are a matter of privately owned property. Many farmers and ranchers don't want it, while many others do. Dubya went through this back in 2003-2005, even considering Eminent Domain. Politics ruled the day, much like they will again presently.

Questions?

 

If it is printed by the US Treasuries - it IS taxpayers money.
Source: New York Times..your camp. I do not normally source newspapers; they are all full of shit. WSJ also had that amount, which NYT plagiarized.
You are changing the discussion--I did not say "priority"--that is YOUR evasion. Most do want the barrier.

Your sources are newspapers (all are biased, as you are for using them). You also source google--left wing radicals. They filter what comes up in a search.

Can you discuss ANYTHING without resorting to left wing crap?? It is available, and you need NOT go to right wing idiots to do so.

 

It is American money. The answer is NO. All the money you and I have is American property--doesn't actually belong to us. We are allowed to temporarily hold it, use it.

 

Actually bonds are a good idea.
As for Trump lying....no shit. Who cares?
About 50 million persons were NOT allowed to keep their doctor OR their health plan "as is", even after being promised they could. And it turns out it is way more expensive after being promised it would be less. Go figure....

 

Dude, Obama didn't hire anybody. He was stuck with Dubya's "Secure Borders Initiative" which created a law to double manpower, install barrier fencing and fund "virtual fencing" with billions of dollars of technology (none of which ever got off the ground).find

Obama didn't do a damn thing except allow Dubya's law to run its course until it expired in 2008-2009.

i think you and your ilk are misinterpreting what the "crisis" is, and what exactly it means.

It wasn't termed "crisis" until a still-unknown group of partisan political hacks decided to form, organize and finance several thousand undocumented immigrants to storm the border and it's Ports of Entry as an overwhelming force to explicitly take advantage of the midterms in an attempt to sway voters.

That, despite what you and Sigmund might believe, constitutes a "crisis". Don't believe me? Go to Tijuana and ask the migrants if it's a crisis. Ask the Mexican government if it's a crisis. And, again, I strongly recommend you speak to any U.S. Immigration officer and ask them if it's a crisis.

Also, a crisis may exist because of the sheer amount of people taking advantage of loopholes in our immigration laws to exploit the asylum process, or bringing children so you cannot be immediately returned.

It's real easy to close your eyes and cover your ears when you're 2000 miles away.

 

But there is a difference between US printed money and US taxpayer money, no?

 

Perhaps. But again, that is semantics. I would guess that an argument could be made as to where the money is at any given time in utilization cycles.
We owe Iran zero. Nothing. And that because they became a hostile nation intent on destroying us. We are Satan, remember? We owe them nothing. Well, perhaps we could give them a nuclear bomb, which they desperately want. Lets send them one....lol

 

So the Dubya program ends in 08/09 yet the biggest drop in the graph is 2011? Still seems to me like the hiring of agents had the greatest effect.

I live in South FL, were aren't exactly cut off from the problems of illegal immigration here.

 

Aren't you one??
hahahahaha!!!!
Send him back!!!

 

For a relatively unfiltered plot in what is really happening on out southern border, the attached story is one of several ongoing subplots:

https://pulitzercenter.org/education/clash-border-tohomo-oodham-nation

The Tohono O'odham Nation in Arizona doesn't want Federal agents or a fence on their reservation because of their deep distrust of American government, in conjunction with a shared race and culture with our southern neighbors.

There will never be a fence on their land. The U.S. Government will never allow it to happen. The government teaches immigration agents on their very first days in an academy, "DFWI".

Don't F**k With the Indians.

Needless to say, the Nation is like The Wild Wild West out there. No rules. No laws. Shootings. Vehicles being used to smuggle drugs and people also being used as weapons against anyone who attempts to stop them. Piles and piles of trash left behind. Land and fences trampled and destroyed daily.

Yet, for some reason, you never hear about any of this. I really had to dig hard to find a story that wasn't slanted too badly in one direction or the other. I used to be able to Google any border story with ease. Now, all one can find with a cursory query is pages upon pages of stories bashing Trump on his wall. Google can no longer be considered as unobjective, as their algorithms have clearly been managed to support popular narratives.

Anyways it's a pretty good read and will give the uninitiated a better grasp of what's actually going on down there

 

lol my parents are both immigrants, just not from countries we hate

 

That reservation sounds a lot like Camden NJ......

 

My mom was as well. So is my wife.
I am a pseudo-immigrant.

 

Well, I know quite a few people in Border Patrol, Customs/Field Operations and ICE who spent years in the southern border who transferred to both sides of Florida. Those are known as "retirement stations", son. Florida doesn't see a fraction of illegal immigration that the other states get. From Jacksonville to Pembroke Pines, Gulf to Atlantic. Those guys have work, but compared to the southern border, they're on cruise control lol.

Drugs? Yes. People? NO.

Okay, let's clear up numbers for 2011 or whatever.

For many many many years, US Immigration had an administrative tool called "Voluntary Return".

"Formal Deportation", which is the act of formally and lawfully deporting someone back to their nation of origin, is very long and tedious. There is an enormous amount of paperwork involved which must be exact and precise and is organized into a case file where the arrested alien is given a formal Alien Registration number. This casework is then entered into a system, and the alien is placed in jail (or camp) until his court case is adjudicated. The sheer amount of man hours spent on formally deporting ONE SINGLE ALIEN (not to mention several, or dozens) is extremely time consuming and pulls considerable resources from the field, as one can imagine.

This is all on taxpayer dollar, of course.

Enter voluntary return, or "VR" as it's known in the field.

I don't know when VR started, long before my immigration career. But the powers that be figured that it would be more efficient all around to catch and release the usual "administrative" illegal aliens, and save actual Deportation Proceedings against Felons, Smugglers and Recidivists (people re-entering repeatedly). Apprehended illegals were given the choice to sign a form admitting guilt and promising to not return, and in return they could take a "Voluntary Return" immediately (no jail, no waiting) back to Mexico without formal punishment.

Read that last sentence very carefully: "...without formal punishment".

What that means is, if the alien took a VR, there would be no formal record of deportation". Any alien not eligible for VR would be formally deported, and would show as a conviction of a crime in any and all criminal records checks.

Fast forward to the end of Dubya's term.

A lot of anti-illegal immigration sentiment lingered. The Dubya administration was informed that a big part of the problem was recidivism, due in large part to the catch and release nature of VR.

A test program was started in 2 sectors to see if the problems with catch and release could be overcome. Operation Streamline was initiated in the Laredo (TX) Sector and, after a couple of painful years, was proven that formally deporting all illegal entrants (barring special circumstances) was workable.

Eventually, around 2010-2012, VR was history and all subsequent apprehensions were processed for Formal Deportation.

When aliens quickly found out that they would be arrested (instead of going home to get a fish taco and a quick piece of tail before they tried again in an hour), it was a big game changer. Numbers plummeted.

And, since Obama was now president, he could use the newfound deportation numbers (since VR was no longer an option) and make it appear that he was deporting more illegals than any previous administration.

This, mis amigos, is what is known as An Inconvenient Truth.

 

So the end of VR and the addition of more border agents is why the number illegal immigration apprehensions are at 1970's levels? I don't care about giving Obama credit, I am just wondering what is the cause of the drop in statistics and why this is such a big issue when we are at a level that wasn't a problem previously in our history. Especially if you factor in the growth of population.

I'm asking out of curiosity, not just to argue. Don't get to talk to someone with as much experience on the subject very often.

I figured the northern border would be the "retirement stations". I know quite a few Haitians and Cubans that have some questionable paperwork lol.

 

Dude, really sick of hearing this.

While racism certainly exists, it's just too easy and convenient to claim that people who support the Rule of Law and are against illegal lawbreakers are "racist".

What you (and the people who perpetuate this f***ed up narrative) are saying, in essence, is that if the 80%-90% majority of illegal aliens were White Russians (instead of Hispanic), Conservative voters would be okay with it. Because they're white.

get the f**k outta here with that s**t.

I think that everyone here will tell you that as long as you came here legally, work hard, earn your keep and don't harm our citizens, we don't give a flying f**k through a rolling donut what color you are or what language you speak.

it just so happens that, by a huge majority, that illegals tend to be Hispanic.

Do you honestly believe that US Immigration officers give out a free pass to some Frenchman or Norwegian because they're not brown?

We got a huge enclave of ex-pat Russians in the PNW, and let me tell you that some of these guys are flat out scummier than any garden variety illegal Hispanic.

But go on and further that divisive narrative dude.

It's precisely that attitude that helped Trump win the election, and most certainly not Russian interference lol.