Could this be a beach replenishment that will be in the favor of surfing

Discussion in 'Mid Atlantic' started by MATT JOHNSON, Oct 1, 2010.

  1. live aloha

    live aloha Well-Known Member

    508
    Oct 4, 2009
    I don't know

    I dunno...the common theme with sand movement seems to be complete uncertainty with the results. The ocean overpowers anything we try to do, and our actions might have effects that no one anticipates. Take the Superbank, for instance. Few people would have opposed the Tweed River project, had they known it would create one of the best spots in Queensland.I could see this going in lots of different directions. The Atlantic is so chaotic...everything in the mid-Atlantic seems to end with the same result: lots and lots of straight sand beaches with any variation soon wiped out by the longshore currents.
     

  2. Mitchell

    Mitchell Well-Known Member

    Jan 5, 2009
    I dont really see the connection to surfing in this situation but the kind of stuff in this article is going on elsewhere as well....LOTS of public funding going into replenishing beachs that are for all intents and purposes private. Either filling beaches that are outright privately owned, or filling beaches where the beach is publicly owned, but public access is severely limited.

    IMO the connection between beach nourishment and surfing, is using grain size. The medium-coarse grain sized sand that engineers like to use for these projects because it holds up well, tends to result in shorebreak. The lefts breaking off the groins (Grant, Broadway, etc) in Cape May is a good example of spots that i'm sure you are familiar with that have been really negatively affected by filling the beach with coarse sand in the area since the late 1980s. Tends to get steep and deep right off the beach, but didnt use to and wouldnt if they would just fill it with medium-fine grain sand.
     
  3. MATT JOHNSON

    MATT JOHNSON Well-Known Member

    Oct 11, 2009

    they are taking sand out of the coveis what I am getting at. If you off the rocks at high tide your in chest deep water. Since they put sand there a while back it hasnt broke like it use too. and the place never gets over chest high anymore. I think if they take sand from there and move it to where they are gonna it will make that place break line it use to 10 years ago. that place use to produce some of the longest lefts in snj at one time
     
  4. Mitchell

    Mitchell Well-Known Member

    Jan 5, 2009
    Matt: This is just a poorly written article. trust me they arent going to be taking any sand OFF the beach at the Cove they are putting more sand ON the Cove beach.
    "The local share of the upcoming project, which includes pumping 320,000 cubic yards of sand from The Cove Beach in Cape May to Saint Peter's Beach in Cape May Point, will only be 8.75 percent of overall costs expected to exceed $5 million."

    The word 'from" means the stretch of beach that is GETTING sand. FROM the Cove to Saint Peters is GETTING sand.

    Either way, i dont expect it to hurt things at the Cove. That place is beyond hope. Except today..my god with HH SE swell and N winds that place must have been at least working today.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2010
  5. MATT JOHNSON

    MATT JOHNSON Well-Known Member

    Oct 11, 2009
    okay from what I read my understanding was they were pumping out the cove. That place breaks like **** anymore no matter what . It has this nice little area inside but thats a bout it. The days of OH long lefts off the rocks are far gone I guess
     
  6. surfer666

    surfer666 Active Member

    29
    Feb 26, 2010
    sand

    The grain size is the result of water movement over underwater topography. Large grain is a result of current and tide pulling away small, easy to move, tiny grains. This compounds itself in that the larger grains have bigger spaces between them and allows more current to erode the topography. Making steep drop-offs. Small grains are the result of water flowing over or with topography. When the current flow is in tune with the topography(natures balance) small grains settle and compact. Giving solid bottom features and a lesser grade. Theres a lot more to it but thats it in a nutshell, so says the Army corps of engineers beach erosion assessment study. Reguardless, the grain size is a result of water action not the replenishment.
     
  7. longbranchsurf

    longbranchsurf Member

    5
    Sep 30, 2010
    I don't know about grain size from a hole in the wall but I know I moved to Monmouth Beach area in 1992 from NYC. The beaches were almost non-existent in Sea Bright/Monmouth/Long Branch but the surfing and Striper fishing was great. They then added the sand and to this day I hate going to Sea Bright to fish or surf. You walk into the water and your neck deep, no sand bars at all. Monmouth beach and Long Branch are not as bad as some sand bars come and go. Its funny to me, as the cry is that the sand is needed to protect the towns/and homes. Deal, which because they did not want to open the beaches for outsiders has not pumped any sand and yet it weathers every storm just fine.
     
  8. wet dreams

    wet dreams Active Member

    37
    Oct 1, 2010
    Exactly. 5th street in Bethany Beach is never pumped and yet every year it's still there. I realize the wind helps to replinish it but maybe if we just back off and let things naturally return this wouldn't be an issue. I know of a few beaches that have never been pumped and they always seem to work it out on their own.
     
  9. Mitchell

    Mitchell Well-Known Member

    Jan 5, 2009
    All i was saying is that grain size of material pumped onto the beach affects the way waves break on replenished beachs...

    fine grained sand (like assateague) tends to form offshore sand bars.
    Coarse grained sand (like currently pumped in Bethany) tends toward shorepound.

    The Corps specifically looks for offshore borrow sites with a specific grain size because it has such a major effect on the beach.

    My personal opinion is that they dont think enough about swimming/surfing and tend to pick coarser grained sand to pump because they are overly concerned with stability of the projects...like thats really working.:rolleyes:
     
  10. Ray F.

    Ray F. Well-Known Member

    396
    Sep 13, 2009
    When they added sand to LB (over 15 years ago), they completely ruined the breaks. North End still isn't the same. I hope it works out better for you guys in South NJ.
     
  11. surfer666

    surfer666 Active Member

    29
    Feb 26, 2010
    sand

    Army corps. try's to match the sand already on the beach. Except that the beach is already eroding leaving courser sand to match to. Really fine sand is hard to come by as well. There are only pockets offshore that they mine from. Thats mostly b/c really fine sand comes from the land, not the ocean. Winds are supposed to blow the tiniest grains into the water near shore. Winds and water current groom out the sediment into bars. Development on the coast has stopped this process. Beach erosion and the damage done by higher storm surge as a result, are a symptom of over development. No amount of sand is going to change that.
     
  12. UncleKev

    UncleKev Active Member

    39
    Feb 24, 2010
    I agree these beaches have been here the way they are for hudreds of years before they started replenishing them. I dont know why they waist so much money trying to replenish them when they should be spending that money on finding ways to protect our oceans and beaches from pollution. I dont know if I'm rite about this but it seems like the beaches that get really steep from the replenishment have worse rips than the other beaches. Thats not very good when we have all these people coming to our beaches and drowning..
     
  13. wet dreams

    wet dreams Active Member

    37
    Oct 1, 2010
    I agree completely. The major erosion we see so often now is our own fault. It used to just be high water lines, now it's massive sand loss and huge drop offs. Good point about the sand as well. The coarse stuff is def useless.
     
  14. LBCrew

    LBCrew Well-Known Member

    Aug 12, 2009
    That's THE damning issue that has caused permanent damage to surf spots in NJ. Stop the natural migration of particles from land to water and you change the beach for ever. Development, particularly the damming of creeks to create artificial oceanfront lakes, changes the beach from an area of balanced erosion and deposition, to erosion only, resulting in the need to pump beaches. Development only goes one way... they never knock down homes and dig up roads to create beaches and natural beachfronts. Once the beachfront is developed it's gone forever. And the dominoes fall from there.
     
  15. mOtion732

    mOtion732 Well-Known Member

    Sep 18, 2008
    what they NEED to do is just make that artificial reef in long branch...