CI Boards...Are they the best?

I was based in Bundoran, Donegal, Ireland now in South Jersey.
Keep looking. It will be worth it.

 

Yep... a great mind for business. That's one of the two reasons why the guy has an empire and is the most successful shaper in the history of surfing. The other is, obviously... great boards.

But you're right, Jim. Construction is a different topic. I stopped building boards the "standard construction" way a long time ago for myself, and I encourage the same for others. But if 4 oz over blue with a sanded hotcoat is what you want, that's what you get.

 

The best board is one custom shaped to your area's conditions and your liking by a local shaper who knows what is required. You'll never see enough deck glassing on most of these mass-produced boards.

 

i seriously doubt robert weiner is pissed b/c CI "stole" the concept of a stubby, wide, thick hp shortboard from him. no one had ever done that before he did... he's gotten thousands, possibly millions, of dollars in free advertising from the ridiculous up-roar that has surround those 2 shapes. how many people had heard of roberts surfboards before all of this? not nearly as many as know about them now!

there are so many aspects that go into a surfboard beyond the basic outline. rails, foil, bottom contours, fin placement, etc...as someone else has mentioned, the white diamond from roberts & the dumpster diver from CI are barely similar.

let me make this abundantly clear: you lack reading comprehension skills. surfboard design is, & always has been, a give & take. someone comes up w/ an idea for a board & makes it. another surfer sees it, checks it out, & makes one that's similar but w/ his own spin on it. the guy who made the original sees the other guy's version, & makes tweaks to his own. thus progression in design occurs. if shapers had to pay royalties to the creator of a given design or be accused of stealing, then the campbell brothers would be millionaires several times over due to the reproduction of their bonzer concept. same w/ simon anderson & the thruster. but none of them are. why? b/c that's not how surfing works. is it right? eh, maybe not. but the only people who've patented designs are sell-outs. walden, for example, has a patent on the rail/bottom contour combo of his magic models. can't reproduce them or you may face legal action (as some have recently found out).

bottom line on CI: if you're looking for a decently shaped, lightly glassed board that you know will work & don't mind dropping the coin & don't want to wait for a custom, then go for it. more than likely you'll be happy w/ your choice.
as i said in a previous post, i wouldn't ride them if i didn't get them well below retail. but they work for me & suit the kind of surfing i like to do.

 

channel islands boards are great. Has anybody had any experience with proctor boards out of ventura. His website is sick and you can actually talk to him about his shapes. I think he is getting ready to blow up. Just my opinion. I think there are great shapers right here on the east coast. Brand isnt everything but definately apeals to some people.

 

You're right again, maybe this is the Steve Walden's patent design but the original patent was applied for in 1966 so just don't understand how Walden is proprietary when there are many other similar surfboard patents. Some surfboard patents date as far back as 1920 while most are observed in the 1960's/70's so it seems maybe patents either reapplied for after they expired? Walden doesn't deserve it ................

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-...&f=G&l=50&d=PALL&RefSrch=yes&Query=PN/D527781


United States Patent D527,781
Walden September 5, 2006

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Surfboard

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Claims

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CLAIM The ornamental design for a surfboard, as shown.
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Inventors: Walden; Steve (Ventura, CA)
Appl. No.: D/240,697
Filed: October 17, 2005

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Current U.S. Class: D21/769
Current International Class: 2102
Field of Search: D21/769,770,801,803,804,806,807,810 114/363 D2/731,732 441/55,56,58,60,61-66,68,69,72-75,79 D12/303,304,309



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References Cited [Referenced By]

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U.S. Patent Documents

D206506 December 1966 Lambach
3317937 May 1967 Gallagher
3323154 June 1967 Lambach
3337886 August 1967 Ekstrom
4857025 August 1989 Brown et al.
D323691 February 1992 Olson
6551157 April 2003 Bishop
D515684 February 2006 Latone
2004/0067702 April 2004 Thornburg

Primary Examiner: Veynar; Caron D.
Assistant Examiner: Bennett; Zenia I
Attorney, Agent or Firm: Hanscom; Eric


Just for giggles how many royalities should be paid to this patent holder


http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-...XT&s1=surfboard&p=2&OS=surfboard&RS=surfboard


Another shocking discovery is the number of patents on fins, fin boxes, leash's, leash plugs, board bags and the "swallow tail"on Fish's.

 

It really isnt about patents and what not. Its mostly just a matter of respect. If you're making millions of dollars off of someone else's EXACT idea and not giving them credit, then quite frankly, it's just being a ****. I can see how shaping is about refining other's ideas, but at least recognize you weren't the original creator.
But thats just speaking hypothetically, we don't know if Al stole the idea or not.

I highly doubt the Dumpster Diver was actually a directly stolen shape, considering the whole "short and wide" idea is found in literally every other shortboard on the market today.

And to add to Al Merrick's defense:
The Epic Tale of the "Dumpster Diver"
Once upon a time...
When Dane showed up at the factory requesting a short wide epoxy with single concave and a huge square tail to make the summer bearable, the Dumpster Diver was born. When he came back a week later and wanted one with a narrower nose and a Rookie tail template for the Trestles contest in 3 days, the 2nd Generation Dumpster Diver was created.

(found on the board's description http://www.cisurfboards.com/sb_Dumpster-Diver.asp)

 

Its hard to believe he's from Bradly Beach. Who would of thought?My long board is a AI waterhog.Very nice board.

 

in all fairness, this is the "cover story" CI put out after the blow up on the internet w/ roberts' white diamond & the dumpster diver when there were photos published on dane riding a WD instead of a CI on a trip somewhere.

 

Love em

I have a Fishcuit that I purchased, first every CI purchase and my most $$$ surfboard purchase ever. Must say that it was absolutely worth it, I can ride that board in almost anything! It catches waves so easily....all I do now is the tail pop and maybe two paddles and I'm in, big and small days alike. My only complaint is the glass is so thin it took me a while to forget about breaking it and ride the board as it should be ridden.

Actually, I have a story about this Fishcuit of mine, which made me a CI fan probably for life. This is my second Fishcuit. The first one broke the DAY I bought it on my third wave. I snapped the board in half near the nose. Heartbroken I brought the board back to the shop. They called up CI and the company agreed to send me a brand new board, all I had to do was pay for shipping. Sweet! I can't guarantee that CI would do this again, I might have just been lucky and the guy on the other end of the phone line might have been just having a really good day or something. But it definitely makes me grateful for CI and since the board rides so well I think my next board might be a CI...

 

Oh yes it is, the patents show how some took it to the next level so the buck ($$$) stops here if you copy my non-original design (patent) you will pay the piper.
How can you not find that egregious ???

Here's the double standard, I'm sure well established surfboard manufacture can pay attorney's $250 a hour on infringement case. But if he copied a design from a local N.J. shaper do ya think the N.J. shaper could afford $250 hourly fee's? So who getting no respect?

Some of those patents are insane and if you have read some of them you would have known that ...................just say'n speaking theoretically

Until njsurf42 brought up the Walden proprietary patented design just had a real big problem with its affect on playing field that we all know. Some threads have commented how designs have been shared, copied and redesigned over the last 60 years because that's the way its always been. Maybe some technological advances are deserving of patents although experiencing similar situations of other industries might not be necessarily the best recipe for us and the local shapers too. I just don't want down the road take a board design to who ever and he can do A,B & C but not X,Y, & Z because of patents restrictions or royalties. If you want the hole ball of wax you'll have to go Mr. Monopoly Surfboards for but it will cost you $$$$ (4 digits) and delivery in maybe 9 months if you're lucky

 

All of the side-notes aside, my simple answer to DaMook's original question:

Yes...

CI/Merrick is the most trusted shaper/manufacturer on the planet. Look at the company he keeps. Although we have had this conversation before on here, and I know not everyone agrees, my opinion is that if you are a surfer, looking for a high perfomance board, regardless of your size. I dont care if you are 6'8, 290lbs looking for a big guy tri, or a 6'5 235 lb guy who just has trouble finding the right board to give you what you want... I simply say: AL Merrick already makes your dream board. Its already mass-produced under the CI namebrand... Some people dont like cookie cutter boards, but seriously, the guy has a board for EVERYONE... and I mean everyone... He has tweaked out dimensional differences on all his model... Diffferent heights, slightly different width. a .mm here and there on the rail.. There are variations on all his model, and yes, many of them fit you.

Most people who have never purchased one usually do so based of personal preference. They would prefer to support local shapers (Which I do as well) and we all understand that. But I have already ridden merricks that simply shred. Right off the rack...

So again, my opinion is a flat out yes!

 

I feel like they are the abercrombie of surfboards...their actual clothing quality is debatable but their female models are hot as ****....similar to ci..surfboard quality is debatable and their riders amazing. Their shapes and models are great but I feel like they break often or are prone to dings. I have never ridden one, but this is the info I have gathered from people, videos, and viewing used boards in shops and talking to shop owners.

 

That is debatable as well. I mean sure, boards break etc... But the entire nation went through a transition as Clark Foam shut its doors. Foam got outsources to Australlia etc. Foam quality went down, and some shapers started developing the EPS/Expoizes etc to counter that... So, CI is no different that Lost, or Plus One or any other label. They have to roll with the punches...

And from a design standpoint, you have to look at your consumers.. Yes, the majority of CI customers probably can barely surf, but the main target market are some really good surfers from in the california market. And what the groms, and young surfers are asking for are lighter, faster boards that release well and go rail to rail...

So for every extra layer of glass, or more weight on a board for durability, you lose a bit of performance... So, it depends on your outlook on surfing and technology.... A normal Al Merrick that you ride on every swell probably has 1-2 year shelf life before it turns into a beater... thats just life...

If you remember, CI was one of the first to jump on the Epozy train and they started tons of shapes of the tufflite boards. Which are durable, but SUCK! So the question is: Do you want a board that lasts for ever and wieghs as much as a black lab? Or do you want a board that is responsive, high perfomance and gives you the OUTPUT you are looking for..

I agree that we arent all pros who get free merricks and can snap them at will and have 10 more shipped for free... But you also have to understand what those really good surfers are riding. Very similar products to the sh** off the rack.... Kelly could care less how long his board lasts, so its hard to translate all the R&D that him and Al put together when you are trying to market to a different kind of surfer...

Merrick Makes tougher boards... But the ones that everyone wants are the ones kelly is working on. The Dane models... People want what is the most advanced, high perfomance boards... and again, I must say CI and Al Merrick are still at the top of the list there...

I can understand some negative consumer feedback, but if you board gets dinged up dropping in on people and doing dumb sh**, then that on you... If you are just out surfing and putting your board through the ringer, those merricks last just as long as the rest of them...

in my opinion anyway.

 

local board/shaper does not necessarily equal cheap to buy (common misconception out there). Local board/shaper usually equals "bro" price

With that being said I agree with other posts that CI are nice but way too overpriced

 

Depends on the glassing schedule right? Most of the standard CI's are glassed as ultra-light...4x4 deck and single 4 bottoms http://www.cisurfboards.com/Surfboard-glassing.asp. This type of glassing is great responsive, light, cost effective, but prone to break down quick. Further, I am sure that their lams are super tight and that they don't waste a ton of resin in house...never saw an oversand on a CI...other than around the fins. However, sure...any poly that is glassed like this with only a hotcoat will be prone to damage. The proton I had mentioned in an earlier post that I purchased...was a poly core and epoxy glass job...held up way better than their standard glass job. In my opinion...materials matter...especially with larger companies that have overheads...if you grabbing something off the rack the shape will likely be great, but the glass job...watch out.

I'm pretty heavy footed and on standard polys...destroy my decks...huge foot wells, and I'm not that big of a guy. The switch to epoxies glass jobs and other hybrids (Resin-X) have afforded me longevity and durability. This goes for CI's or any other brand. For me at this stage of the game, I only purchase a poly if I need a beater for a while...and they are always used anyway...

 

Picked up a 1 off order from Noltie for $450- on my first time ever dealing with him. This is also the going rate for a hotline custom, last time I checked. Shell shapes are semi-custom, HIC boards tuned for east coast waves, and around the same price, maybe $500. An In the eye (hatteras brand) will also run you around $500. I believe in the eye and shell will still take custom requests, although I havnt dealt with them in years.

 

yes,Lynn Shell is a world-class shaper,Outer Banks Boarding Company,OBBC,shellshapes,Nags Head.
yes,In The Eye,Hatteras,since 1977,is Lynn Shell's colleague all these years, Scott Busbey, my shaper,and he can and will make any surfboard you want, and help you with advice when he does not think something's right. i ordered a 7'0" six-channel double-wing swallowtail single fin (i am 6'5") and after he shaped the blank he told me he didn't like it and scrapped the blank,cut out a whole new board,made a new board with a little different dimensions.Much less expensive than a Merrick, and the guy is a master.hand-shaped,boys.they are beautiful sticks.

 

"the mid atlantic and northeast has a lot of shapers and it's a bit overwhelming. the guys that post on here do seem to know their stuff."

Ahhh - are you sure about this? Now it may be a bit overwhelming in CA/HA and Oz but not in the NE or Mid-Atl. - especially if you're referring to seasoned, established shapers and brands. There are a small cluster of good shapers in Melbourne, FL but not here in MHO.

 

This thread makes me laugh... Al Merrick doesn't even own Channel Islands anymore. Burton owns it. Al doesn't shape anymore either. All of the new designs, especially the Dumpster Diver, were designed by the ghost shapers who work for Burton Islands.

The story behind the dumpster diver is that Dane showed up at CI with a White Diamond. The guy who runs the CAD machine scanned the design, made a few tweaks and the Dumpster Diver was born.

All of CI's new boards are developed by the Burton rider driven design process that they perfected with their snowboards.

CI has some incredible ghost shapers, so I have no doubt the designs will continue to be well done. But Al has little to do with CI anymore. Rumor has it the Merrick family regrets this, but Al was going through a lot when he sold. He had just had cancer and his granddaughter was fighting cancer.

Two of my friends are ghost shapers for CI. I buy my boards directly from them, but I wouldn't hesitate riding a CI. They have really high standards of quality. They are not pop-outs. They are rough shaped on a very high tech CNC machine that was designed specifically for CI. They are finished by hand by very accomplished ghost shapers. They are glassed to high quality standards. It is actually rather difficult for a glass house to meet the quality standards of CI. Personally I prefer to buy boards from the smaller guy who will give you a more personal experience, but if you would ride a Burton snowboard, there's no reason you shouldn't ride a CI surfboard.