2012 Presidential Election

Discussion in 'Mid Atlantic' started by Johnny Utah, Jul 14, 2011.

Who are you planning on voting for in the 2012 presidential election?

  1. Barack Obama

    25 vote(s)
    36.8%
  2. Mitt Romney

    5 vote(s)
    7.4%
  3. Ron Paul

    26 vote(s)
    38.2%
  4. Michele Bachmann

    1 vote(s)
    1.5%
  5. Herman Cain

    4 vote(s)
    5.9%
  6. Newt Gingrich

    1 vote(s)
    1.5%
  7. Tim Pawlenty

    2 vote(s)
    2.9%
  8. Rudi Giulliani

    1 vote(s)
    1.5%
  9. Rick Perry

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  10. Sarah Palin

    3 vote(s)
    4.4%
  1. aka pumpmaster

    aka pumpmaster Well-Known Member

    Apr 30, 2008
    The alternative is a collectivist structure that rewards the most incompetant at the expense of the most productive and has been proven not to work.

    Actually I don't reject the constitution at all and neither does Rand in fact since the US was a country formed by the rational thought of man, it fits with her philospophy perfectly. I should clarify..I support helping ones fellow man voluntarily, but not through the threat of force s most current welfare programs do (don't pay your taxes to support welfare, you go to jail).
     
  2. Koki Barrels

    Koki Barrels Well-Known Member

    Aug 14, 2008
    I totally agree
     

  3. rodndtube

    rodndtube Well-Known Member

    800
    May 21, 2006
    Too bad the government isn't a la carte! Now translate the collectivist/merit pay concepts and protocols to the Defense Budget and the great military socialist enterprise in the USA.
     
  4. yankee

    yankee Well-Known Member

    Sep 26, 2008
    launch the bashings !

    Just a bit skeptical of an author & 'philosopher' who was heavily & completely addicted to amphetamines & who was, without question, high off her arse when she wrote 'The Fountainhead' and 'Atlas Shrugged.'

    My 2 cents...
     
  5. whosthat

    whosthat Well-Known Member

    293
    Apr 8, 2011
    surfrr............you are absolutely correct.............I meant blue.......I think the heat and flatness is rotting my brain.....I need surf bad......
     
  6. aka pumpmaster

    aka pumpmaster Well-Known Member

    Apr 30, 2008
    cant speak to that, BUT ON PAPER the military should be a great example of meritocracy. I suspect that the bureaucracy that invaded the DOD has perverted it.

    Yankee, seriously learn how to debate correctly. If you can't, or are unwilling or are incapable of refuting an IDEA, don't resort to attacking the messenger. it's juvenile and reflects a diminished intelligence. You did a good job of it by stating why you don't like Ron Paul (his foreign policy positions) don't regress here.
     
  7. beachbreak

    beachbreak Well-Known Member

    Apr 7, 2008
    i would love the rand theory to work,but it hasn't even started,so,can we fix the tax problem first?the 'education overhaul' would actually have the scared board/admin that's so politically corrected up firing dynamic effective real teachers,plus,how would you merit pay art and music and pe?governor christie the musician is going to give me a raise when i'm teaching general music or pe?where's the test scores for that,and who determines it?if someone who understands what a good teacher does is going to pay us accordingly,sign me up now,but,when has that ever happened in the field of public school education?do you want to try teaching general music in a middle school,governor,and are you as qualified as me?i think he should be a gym teacher;he's certainly a fine example of someone who takes really good care of himself,fitness,health,diet.i mean,look at this guy,how can he be telling everyone how to fix everything when he no way can get near touching his toes.i want to see a hp shortboard shaped for him!
     
  8. aka pumpmaster

    aka pumpmaster Well-Known Member

    Apr 30, 2008
    Like most of us, you would be evaluated by your boss based on performance criteria established by your district.
     
  9. beachbreak

    beachbreak Well-Known Member

    Apr 7, 2008
    they already do that,but,they don't care at all about real performance criteria,no one does,including christie and obama,they only look at dollars and cents,so,back to an earlier post,they probably would outsource illegal alien mexicans like they did with the custodians in our now filthy,falling apart school.as if school districts aren't as awful as the government?christie is somehow an exception?i wouldn't bet on that,and over time he'll be exposed like the rest of them.he's right about the education system and the union,but,his solution is far worse.you'd have to tear it all down,get rid of everybody and start over,which ain't gonna happen.where are all the new,wonderfully awesome education people coming from,now that with 'pension/healthcare 'reform',pay freezes,etc.,why would anyone that great want to go into the field?christie is a jackass.open your eyes.
     
  10. jwj72

    jwj72 Active Member

    39
    Apr 2, 2007
    What is so hard to understand about the lack of money to pay for everything everyone wants? Why are teachers (maybe I should say public sector union members) such a special class of people that they should be immune from the economy that everyone else has to deal with? If you don't like the pay and benefits they're giving you, find a different job. That's what the rest of us do. And as far as applying these principles to the Defense Dept., when was the last time the military protested their pay or went on strike? It's apples and orange, but even ignoring that, the comparison doesn't work.
     
  11. beachbreak

    beachbreak Well-Known Member

    Apr 7, 2008
    i wrote 'the government,' not, as you misconstrued, the defense department.your argument would make sense if we weren't underpaid to begin with.the pension/benefit 'reform' and pay freezes make it a lot worse.
     
  12. SurfJdog

    SurfJdog Well-Known Member

    165
    Sep 28, 2008
    Looks like a tight race between Obama and Paul...I like the Ron Paul support, but I'm not sure the race would be this close when considering other demographics other than those of us on this website.

    I will say that it's nice to see the field is at least beating Obama... Field=36 Obama=22
     
  13. xJohnnyUtahX

    xJohnnyUtahX Well-Known Member

    470
    May 30, 2010
    The problem is not the government alone, its the people too, who seem to now have become a product of it. Too many americans are getting jobs that are expected to pay x-amount of dollars after so many years then crying when it gets froze. If your job requirements or workload is not going up, why should your pay? Just because on paper it said you would be making more money by 2011, doesnt mean u should of bought that house in 06. Its ridonkulous to think you deserve to do the same thing day in and day out ,never raising the bar and receive more money. anyone in a position like that deserves to have their pay increases froze.
     
  14. rodndtube

    rodndtube Well-Known Member

    800
    May 21, 2006
    It is a shame that if one person takes a hit in pay then they believe all of their peers should also take hits in pay, benefits, working conditions. And then go on and defend the top 1% of the people that are pulling in all the cream, ethically or not. Just consider for a moment how pay is handled on Wall Street -- why is bonus income treated as Capital Gains and not the bonuses that you and I earn?

    Brush up on Sen. Colburn's debt reduction proposal for the DOD and then we can have a more informed debate. Why shouldn't all cash compensation be tied to productivity and merit?
     
  15. beachbreak

    beachbreak Well-Known Member

    Apr 7, 2008
    i do a much better job each year,more effective,more dedicated,more efficient more thorough,so,teaching being different than other jobs,yes,i think i deserve an annual pay raise,and,yes, i think teachers should be paid a lot.i would like anyone like governor christie try being highly effective teaching in a public middle school and then tell me how easy it is.it's like talking about marriage or having children or surfing when you've never done it.only a teacher knows the feeling.

    the government is the best,it's what people have done to it that makes it so awful.
    my classroom is nothing like that.
     
  16. yankee

    yankee Well-Known Member

    Sep 26, 2008
    i do a much better job each year,more effective,more dedicated,more efficient more thorough,so,teaching being different than other jobs,yes,i think i deserve an annual pay raise,and,yes, i think teachers should be paid a lot.i would like anyone like governor christie try being highly effective teaching in a public middle school and then tell me how easy it is.it's like talking about marriage or having children or surfing when you've never done it.only a teacher knows the feeling.


    Hang on, let me get my violin. Or banjo, as the case may be.
    BTW, can I get some cheese with your whine...?

    Everyone that I've ever met, or interviewed for a position with my companies, has told me that they are the hardest workin' American you'd ever want to see. At which point... interview over, 'cause it's BS.

    Something like 22% of the American population works for a local, state or federal entity. (That includes teachers - - one of the most unionized, entitlement gigs in the history of our nation.)

    So... when a fellow citizen wonders where the sense of entitlement in this used-to-be-incredible nation originates ? Start there: all these local/state/fed employees with their mandatory raises & their beefy retirement pensions & benefits totally on the public dime & their attitude of 'gimme more.'

    And that's why our taxes will continue to rise. For example, how can a small-town fire chief retire on 80% of his wage, making 120k per year, plus benefits? Who the hell pays for that? WE do. And it's a growing mountain of people - - where does that money come from? More taxes on you !

    Teachers have never earned a lot & that's just the life. You want to teach because you're good at it & you have a passion for it. Then good for you. You want to make a million bucks? You shoulda gone to Wall Street & hired on as a trader. Other than that, STFU & quit *****in' about your lot in life - - the one that YOU chose.

    Get real.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2011
  17. beachbreak

    beachbreak Well-Known Member

    Apr 7, 2008
    the fat guy's taking my money after i've put 16 years in the same district,so,if it was you,you'd be like ok with that,correct?.he's arrogant and ignorant.let him come teach my class.he wouldn't last five minutes.yeah,i'm so entitled,you really know me,i'm a whiner because i have the opinion that he's making me the scapegoat but is clueless. it's sad so many people agree and blindly bash the profession and lump us all in together.tell me to quit whining and to shut up because i have a different,well-thought out opinion.i don't claim to know you or what you do with your life,so for you to think you have any idea what mine is like then you,sir,are the idiot.i have children i teach important,helpful things they value,and that should be respected.maybe had you taken my class when you were their age you would have learned to read,think about what you read and consider that you could have learned something from my posts,which were certainly not whiny but only a very different opinion than you've ever read on this subject.why tell me what to think or type on swellinfo?you just come across as really mean-spirited by that,and,i might not be the nicest,either,but,what do you know about an entire lifetime devoted to music and teaching and children that you compare it to other professions?it's different,i was ok making peanuts,having great healthcare and a good pension,but now this pea-wit tough guy says i'm entitled,and you pile on.come look at my entitled life,and,then tell me to shut up.i think you'd be surprised.
     
  18. leethestud

    leethestud Well-Known Member

    Aug 12, 2010
    Please, God, tell me that you are not an English teacher. It looks like a 13 year old girl 'tweeted' this post in from her sidekick.
     
  19. Ray F.

    Ray F. Well-Known Member

    396
    Sep 13, 2009
    Beachbreak, do you have specific suggestions of where he should've made cuts or are you saying it doesn't matter as long as teachers aren't affected? I'm obviously not as well informed as you are on the details, but from what I have read & heard, he proposed cuts several programs to balance the books...meaning teachers aren't the only group to take a hit.
     
  20. surfrr

    surfrr Well-Known Member

    226
    Sep 29, 2010
    Haha, ya I think this heat and flat spell is making us all a little kooky and crazy...Let's fast forward to November for some election throwdowns and some Noreasters....

    And not to bash teachers or public sector employees, but sometimes things need to be put in perspective. Ya it stinks that you wont get a contract increase and now you have to contribute more toward healthcare and pension contribution (thinking the NJ deal). But look to the private sector where many employees don't get an annual increase, have to pay a lot more toward healthcare, and have no pension to speak of. What is their recourse? Quit and find a better job. And in this economic climate where many private sector employees have been laid off, one should feel fortunate to even have a job, let alone one with pension and benefits. This is not to say you don't have a right to feel miffed by the new benefits legislation, but as a public employee whose wage is paid for by public tax dollars, there is only so much money to go around. So in tough times when there is less money to go around, it seems only logical that one may not get what they have in the past when times were better (i.e. higher revenues). And this shouldn't be interpreted as a reflection on the employee's performance, but more as a circumstance of the reality. Christie didn't "take your money", there have been less revenues, and therfore there is less to go around to not just you, but the entire state. And teachers aren't the only ones who took a hit, all state workers took similar hits in benefits packages. Just some perspective.