discuss: quad v thruster quantified

really cool paper. I guess the end result is that for most modern surfing, a thruster would be the right call 90% of the time, while in incredibly small, maneuver less mush, a quad would give you speed, an in those VERY large situations, where it is simply down the line surfing, a 4 fin setup would be suitable.

For modern day barrel riding though, even on big waves, this paper's results indicate that a thruster is a better choice in Huge barrel surfing because it allows the ankle tweaking and maneuverability that would be so critical while making those minor adjustments in the tube. You could argue that in a wave like Teahupoo or something that maybe the quad would work, just because its all about speed and once you set your line angle at the bottom of the wave face, its all just kind of a race then...

But again, this paper re-enforces to me that there is a reason why you RARELY, if ever see quads and stuff being used on tour. I know people have dabbled in it. But on a large scale, flip everyone's boards over at any given event on the ASP and you will see thrusters and thursters only primarily.

Still trying to fall in love with my quad... Maybe some day....

Watched a video of tyler knox on a 5 fin bonzer through a link on this site last week. It looked like such an effort for him to get that tail around and go rail to rail... So, I guess more fins == more drag and harder to turn regardless of the setup.

 

Surfing a quad is fun. You just gotta have the right fins and fin placement for the particular wave. This takes a little while and cash to figure-out. As an approaching 40 surfer, I find they generate their own speed a bit more, which I like. The lack of pivot-ability, and sometimes too much speed, are my only complaints about them. I own quads, single-fins, 2+1s, and thrusters. I love them all!

 

She blinded me with science.
And that link w/ Knox on the bonzer only confirms that those things are a waste of plastic foam and fiberglass. Please let them go away and let's move on.
Wish the "quad" was more defined in terms of the hull shape. I mean you can put 4 skegs on any shaped hull and call it a "quad" whether a fish, hot rod squash performance thruster, gun, log or whatever. And not withstanding where the fins are stuck on - pushed together, spread apart, on the corners, toed in or not at all. Too many variables to quantify into one term.

 

thats a very serious report for something like surfing. i read a report similar to that this morning about solar panels. had the same graph.

Im a fan of the quad. its just one aspect of design but i think it helps this older guy surf closer to the way he did in his twentys. when i do a top turn i make make less spray on a quad which should mean less energy wasted. I make more sections which keeps me intrested so i stay in the water longer than if i wasn't making them. There are so many other design factors to consider besides fins. I have two quads. one is a great board shaped similiar to an older thruster but sometimes i found that it was racing out in front of the pocket and had to always be cut back when a more vertical approach could have been taken. I wanted to keep the easy speed aspect but stay more in the pocket so another one was shaped a little shorter with a fuller plane shape, a fuller rail and a little more nose rocker. the thing turns on a dime with less effort to generate speed when needed.

im not saying a quad set up is better than a thruster set up. im saying they are better for me.

 

It "proves" what surfers have been saying all along about the difference between thrusters and quads... that quads go faster, and carry more speed through turns than thrusters. Why? Because you generally don't push quads into the higher angles of attack that you do thrusters. One of the main benefits of quads is that they have larger turning radii than thrusters, but carry much more speed through the turn. And if you give them a degree or so more cant, they generate more lift, especially in smaller surf, which translates into more speed... because it's not just the fin lift and drag you consider... it's also how much drag the hull creates when planing, and vertical fin lift helps address that.

 

To surf a quad well you have to have a quad style. If you are a flowing surfer connecting turns etc a quad is perfect. If you want to get vertical all the time a thruster is better and offers snappier turns. I think a quad can do almost everything a thruster can just not as good. A thruster on the other hand can never generate the easy effortless speed of a quad without it becoming a pumping down the line mess. I'm a quad guy through and through, just fits my style. Rode a thruster all winter because I broke a quad box on my 5 fin. The thruster did great in hollow surf and allowed me to get some big vertical snaps. Once the winter guts dropped out of the swells I have been suffering, time to get back on he quad for me.

 

This is SO true. The two boards i ride almost all of the time are both quads - one has the rear fins railward and canted out, the other the rear fins stringerward and vertical. I swear I can notice the added lift from the board that has all four fins canted outward. Its like as soon as you hit a certain gear going down the line, and the board is planing, there is a feeling of lightness and acceleration, and the board has a higher top end. The other quad with the nearly vertical and stringerward rear fins feels a lot more like a thruster.

 

that's gotta be one of the dumbest things i've read on here...one video of one guy on a bonzer=bonzers are useless crap. that's like saying global warming/climate change is a hoax b/c winter is still cold & it snows. it'd be interesting to see how taylor surfed that same wave on a thruster, b/c i'd bet he's prob. surfing a helluva lot better on the bonzer than he would on a thruster.
but let me guess, you've never ridden one, right? so that makes you the ultimate authority on bonzers.

 

I'm hearing a lot of BS from some people who've never ridden a Bonzer…

There's an instant perceived bias from some people as soon as they see a surfer on a board besides a thruster and the armchair quarterbacking starts.





Yeah, definitely can't get the tail around or go rail to rail

 

as ifallalot said, there's far too much bs-ing from people who don't know what they're talking about, esp. in regard to the bonzer.

 

What i dont understand is why i've seen so many people talk about "rail to rail" surfing and on what boards it was good for/bad for.

Now am i wrong to think that most the boards in the discussions would actually be boards that are designed to be good at just that, as they are all usually modern tweaks on 60's-70's designs where rail to rail surfing was at its peak?

Like fishes, bonzers, single fins...these boards all (in my opinion) perform the way they are supposed to when you put them on rail. Now i've been surfing a long enough time to be pretty average in the lineups, however im not a know every maneuver type of guy. I know what a barrel is. But ive always thought a nice round house cutback, was the epitome of rail to rail, as you are taking your turn from one rail around to the other...am i wrong on that?

 

bonzers are awesome...they can be hard on the knees..like the quartet set up
of neal purchase jr.(google it)...which ..the later..for me so far has been a great set up.

 

Strange to see you advocating three fins then.

 

It is a hoax.

 

Figured I'd chime in since I just got my first quad.. For average east coast waves, I dont see myself riding a thruster again anytime soon. This quad is amazing. Fast and maneuverable in small waves and held well in small hollow barrels.
There may be more to the story than the handful of variables that were included in the fin study. Infact, just recently in my biomedical engineering firm, we discovered a product in which user perception contradicted the quantitative data over 80% of the time. The measuring instrumentation said "A" was always better, but almost every person tested said "B" was better. The details as to why got too detailed to get into.
I think I'm just going to stick with boards with 5 fin boxes from here on out and set them up on a case by case basis.

 

Meaning, 4 fins == more frag than 3 fins. I am more of an up and down vertical guy... Not the fluid turning kind.

 

DISCLAIMER: I didn't make a bonzer bashing comment.

When I made the Taylor Know comment, I was just indicating how slow his turns looked. I have seen him surf up close before and followed his career for many years. He is not a big air guy, or anything radical, he is just a strong power surfing rail to rail guy. Yes he has some tricks in his bags, but I am saying on that ONE video that the link was posted, he was surfing a chest high, slow, well formed right hander and you could see the amount of effort and torque he had to use to get that board back around and square while remaining in style. I am not saying there is no application for it... You could just see the fins never releasing on his snapping and turns and you could see that those fins were just digging in the water, not wanting to come out....

The pictures that were just posted of a guy basically laying on a 90 degree angle getting a crazy rail to rail turn is fine. A bonzer would be great in a situation I.E. bigger wave while you don't want that board sliding out on you while you have to make a big powerful bottom turn... Thats great. But that photo also illustrates what I am saying. You wouldn't need to have your as$ planted in the flats and have that much torque to get the board around on a thruster.... Thats the point....

Im not a bonzer guy cause ive never had one. I just made an observation about how a pro's style really changed while watching him ride the board. Same as a quad. I have seen Kelly on a 5 fin bonzer and a quad. It does the same thing to him. He has to surf it differently. There is definitely some lag in his swinging of the tail etc. I think kelly looks more normal on a 5 fin bonzer, just because that pivot fin is there.

Just saying, I think there is an application for all boards, all fin setups. I think most of us from my "era" were exposed to almost nothing but thrusters for so long, it just changed our paradigm. When you develop your style and surfing on a certain board type (modern potato chip shortboard) or fin setup (thruster) your whole life, and then start messing around with other setups, its just different. Alien almost. So, if you surfed a quad your whole like, a thruster would probably be strange to you.

I really want to try a bonzer. I would love to see what was up with it. Next board I get shaped, I proabably want to have FCS or Future plugs put into it, but with 5 slots. So It can be ridden as a 5 fin bonzer, a thurster or a quad, a quad bonzer or even a twin... I think that will be the fun way to TRULY see what makes each setup tick. Taking the same board, and trying the different things on it. I have surfed DIFFERENT boards with different setups, but I have never gotten a chance to try all on one. That seems like the way to go anyway. I dont know why more shapers arent doing that. I understand if its a custom shape, but if you are putting your boards in a shop on the rack, put in 5 plugs and that could let the rider have all kinds of fun with it.