Duck NC

L.P.

Your post 100% real world if HOA Docs filed incorporating HOA's; while HOA governs access, is the sand "deeded" to the HOA by Dare County N.C. ? Regarding the Deal NJ case, we have narrow private beach here in DE you can pass through but can't park your beach chair on the sand.

 

Around R.B. beach front, its 1 mil for the sand, low/mid millions for the house so the cost of flood insurance is not slowing the development, sadly .............

 

Good question.

I was merely theorizing what the possible outcome might be. So I'm guessing that State land use laws would automatically override any HOA Rules & Regs, i.e., the county most likely didn't "deed" the sand inasmuch as the "mean low tide" rules were applied.

 

Yah, up here there's so much money & so many humans that prices might not be affected.

But, give it time....I'm already seeing a lot more properties for sale along the Central Coast of FLA than this time last year....and their asking prices are going down...time will tell....

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/state/florida/article215162440.html


‘As of February 2018, FEMA's debt stood at $20.5 billion. Without reforms, the financial condition of NFIP will continue to worsen.’

 

This goes to my point in re Rule of Law:

The rule of law is defined in the Oxford English Dictionary as: "The authority and influence of law in society, especially when viewed as a constraint on individual and institutional behavior; (hence) the principle whereby all members of a society (including those in government) are considered equally subject to publicly disclosed legal codes and processes."

The principle, if not the phrase itself, was recognized by ancient thinkers; for example, Aristotle wrote: "It is more proper that law should govern than any one of the citizens".

The rule of law implies that every person is subject to the law, including people who are lawmakers, law enforcement officials, and judges. Lack of the rule of law can be found because of neglect or ignorance of the law.

Constitutional framer George Mason stated that judges "could declare an unconstitutional law void. But with regard to every law, however unjust, oppressive or pernicious, which did not come plainly under this description, they would be under the necessity as judges to give it a free course."

BTW, what made the Kavanaugh show trial offensive, scary & possibly illegal was that it was held by the Speaker of the House in direct contretemps to the Constitution of the United States right to due process. And, as you all of course know, ALL govt officers of the USA pledge first & foremost to uphold the Constitution of the United States. Which, in this case, didn't happen, was severely abrogated or outright trodden upon.

 

Most case law cases I've studied of State and Riparian Rights begin and end at high tide, the state owns up to the high tide, "mean" tide is the fluctuation of the tides.

Funny about N.J. cases, State does not granted riparian rights while MD, VA. and N.C. via licensing public/tidal waters.

 

"Public trust doctrine – the ancient legal principle stipulating that a government may retain and protect certain resources for public use – is responsible for establishing the common law right of state governments to hold in trust all beaches for public use. Today, each individual state is responsible for articulating, interpreting, and enforcing the particular guidelines that determine which beach land may be designated as public."

So it varies by state:
For example Delaware is a "low-tide" state meaning private property ownership MAY extend as far as low water (and it often does)

 

Yank
This could be the rule of law in Dare County Superior Count; the lawyer walks in the court room, your honor representing the HOA, Judge replies cousin Bobby missed ya in church Sunday, tell your momma & daddy I said hello .......... please proceed ..........

 

Where did this come from?
Citation please. Thanks.

 

Mitch,
How current is the graph, resent prior case law in Va. thought it was reversed but might have been non tidal waters? Thanks for sharing, surprised about DE, written by Statue or Case Law ?

 

This is once you get there. It seems (at least from how I’m interpreting it with limited information on case specifics), that the issue is access.

Good data though. I like how Hawaii is wet and dry beaches!!!

 

We think we are so evolved as a species....then, off in the distance, faint but growing stronger, the theme from Deliverance is heard...

 

The Public Trust Doctrine is part & parcel of The Rule of Law - - not the other way around.
Just sayin'...

There are so many court decisions regarding The Public Trust Doctrine that you could go blind trying to read them all. No wonder law students enter law school with good vision & graduate wearing coke bottle lenses just to see

 

so orange is the asshole states?

 

I don't know if there is a statute to that effect in Delaware. There are Delaware Supreme Court cases affirming the opinion that private ownership can extend to low water. There is at least one or two "private" community along the ocean that puts up post-and-rope fence every summer with "private beach" signs alerting people walking along the beach that if they are walking on dry sand, then they are trespassing. There are a lot of writings on it. Here is one legal article that mentions Delaware's "low tide state" status and a footnote to a 1994 Supreme Court Case on page two. I couldnt get the link to work, but this is one article that is worth reading:

Seton Hall University eRepository @ Seton Hall Law School Student Scholarship Seton Hall Law 2016 The Public Trust Doctrine and Beach Access: Comparing New Jersey to Nearby States Jack Potash

 

Long article in Maryland Law Review. Long history of the Public Trust Doctine in section IV along with that image showing which states have high water, low water, dry beach, wet beach etc case law upholding private ownership down to a zone, and public ownership below that zone

http://papers.risingsea.net/downloads/takings.pdf

 

Exactly...its once you get onto a beach (mainly from sea) what public uses are legal. The law has roots in old English / Mediterranean origins...like a ship in distress should be legally able to come to shore without being in violation of trespassing laws and shellfishermen should be able to harvest along coasts without adjacent upland property owners having them arrested the minute they step onto a rock.

 

The devil’s advocate wonders what would happen if Seldom Seen’s mob who do not respect The Rule of Law decided that all of these laws that are designed to protect folks like the scallops harvesters (1842 case law) are null & void because they, the mob, decree it to be so.

Asking for a friend, fella