Firewire's Linear Flex Technology -

Discussion in 'Surfboards and Surfboard Design' started by MFCondor, Jan 26, 2014.

  1. MFCondor

    MFCondor Well-Known Member

    426
    Nov 30, 2013
  2. njsurfer42

    njsurfer42 Well-Known Member

    Nov 9, 2009
    keep in mind i haven't seen one in person yet, BUT...based on this statement from firewire's website:

    "LFT incorporates Firewire’s new SPRINGER HD, a 0.75” (18 mm) wide aerospace composite that runs down the centerline of the board, representing the next generation in our SPRINGER technology. Unlike the original balsa SPRINGER build which only added stiffness under the front foot, the SPRINGER HD runs the entire length of the board and plays a pivotal role in optimizing flex from nose to tail. "

    it sounds like they've gone & added a version of the traditional stringer. time will tell, but it seems like they may be finding that a more traditional construction method, albeit tweaked, is better performing.
     

  3. MFCondor

    MFCondor Well-Known Member

    426
    Nov 30, 2013
    I just thought it was interesting because the TOMO Vanguard has a very high buckle rate from its natural straight rails and I saw they have it on that model, as well as others.

    I am thinking adding a little flex to some boards may help there strength while performing maneuvers.
     
  4. njsurfer42

    njsurfer42 Well-Known Member

    Nov 9, 2009
    does it? where did you hear that?

    seems like they're actually adding a bit of backbone to the boards...wouldn't the "springer", as they call it, act a little like a spine & stiffen the board?
    i think it's very interesting that they're introducing this tech not long after their premier surfer, taj, parted ways w/ them & had 2 of his more successful seasons on tour.
     
  5. MFCondor

    MFCondor Well-Known Member

    426
    Nov 30, 2013
  6. njsurfer42

    njsurfer42 Well-Known Member

    Nov 9, 2009
    that's interesting. being as they're so new here on the east coast, there's not a whole lot of feedback on the tomo line just yet. it'll be interesting to see if that trend shows up here as the designs catch on & more people start riding them.
     
  7. worsey

    worsey Well-Known Member

    Oct 13, 2013
    squire firewire

    my dominator works well dependably - especially backside. think the technology is called f s t .
    my potatonator less so, kinda 'wave specific' but VERY FAST the rare days i actually do dial it in.
     
  8. LBCrew

    LBCrew Well-Known Member

    Aug 12, 2009
    I wonder if the rapid increase in demand means they're not fully curing their boards before sale, or maybe they're skipping the post cure step or some other shortcut...
     
  9. LBCrew

    LBCrew Well-Known Member

    Aug 12, 2009
    It wouldn't surprise me if it is... makes sense.

    I'm always leery of claims referring to "enhanced flex," or "better flex pattern," and vagueries like that. What does that mean? Why not say what it does? If they mean, stiffens, or dampens, or faster flex return, or whatever... just say it. Vague claims like that make me think they're not sure what they mean, and definitely don't want to say what they mean if they do because it might not be what the rider is looking for. Better keep things vague so they appeal to all potential buyers. Who doesn't want "better" or "enhanced" anything?
     
  10. JimB

    JimB Active Member

    42
    Aug 4, 2010
    Never had any issues with the FST construction boards but a buddy of mine had a "Rapid Fire" Spitfire that buckled. Looks like the Vanguard is made with "White Rapid Fire" construction. They say it's lighter but not as strong as the FST. Could be why they're adding the "Linear Flex" to it.
     
  11. MFCondor

    MFCondor Well-Known Member

    426
    Nov 30, 2013
    I have an 6'2" Spitfire RF and a 6'0" Spitfire FST. I have also owned a 6"1" RF Activator. I didn't like the feel of my Activator and broke my Spitfire RF in half in Southern Delaware. See Delaware is h e a v y thread (comical on a side note). The RF seems a bit soft - despite eps/epoxy combo. My FST has held up but I have mostly been surfing OCMD the most.

    LB, I agree man - vague statements on flex makes me wonder if this is a band aid for high failure rates?

    None the less. My 6'0" Spitfire is a good board. I liked my old 6"2" Sam Egan Resin8 better but that board is also in 2 pieces.
     
  12. worsey

    worsey Well-Known Member

    Oct 13, 2013
    what flex?

    LB, I agree man - vague statements on flex makes me wonder if this is a band aid for high failure rates?


    neither of my f/wire stix exhibits any flex - i think. straight up - (cue whitney houston) -
    HOW WOULD I KNOW???
     
  13. njsurfer42

    njsurfer42 Well-Known Member

    Nov 9, 2009
    flex is, IMO, what firewire is all about. by moving the stringer out to the rails on the fst, they managed to negate the stiffness that is inherent in eps foam & control that flex by tuning the stringer & rocker to work together (theoretically).
    turn it over (deck down) & lightly step in the middle. w/ fst, you can jump up & down on the board w/ both feet & watch (& feel) it flex beneath you. i've never tried that trick w/ a rf tech one, but theoretically, it should be the same.
     
  14. wavehog1

    wavehog1 Well-Known Member

    382
    Sep 20, 2013
    Springer technology.....

    Its not all hype, there's actually some truth in there. However its really nothing new with the exception of the term coined by Firewire.

    I was doing this about 5 years ago...... I had SurfBlanks in California custom build our foam blanks using bamboo stringers we pre-cut and sent out to them. Bamboo is highly flexible, lightweight, waterproof and very, very strong. It was a little difficult when shaping and wasn't kind to our blades.

    The end result though was titts! We did many different combinations of glass and cloth and also different types of resins. The overall final product though was a very flexible, lightweight, more durable board.

    I'll have to look more into the Firewire and see what combo they're using.
     
  15. Roy Stuart

    Roy Stuart Well-Known Member

    Jan 27, 2013
    It doesn't make any sense since flex and stiffness are determined by the outer skins. Unless the skins are more flexible than a glass and resin laminate the central 'springer' which is closer to the neutral axis will do nothing significant.
     
  16. LBCrew

    LBCrew Well-Known Member

    Aug 12, 2009
    ...especially when the springer isn't tied to the skins on both sides.
     
  17. LBCrew

    LBCrew Well-Known Member

    Aug 12, 2009
    Even just trimming a regular bamboo stringer with a block plain is rough... those growth nodes are a bee-atch.
     
  18. wavehog1

    wavehog1 Well-Known Member

    382
    Sep 20, 2013
    Its a combination of both. The flex of the stringer is definitely noticeable. I've shaped some epoxy's with no stringer at all and you could definitely notice a difference and epoxy is a very rigid resin. To most weekend warriors out there it wouldn't make a difference. Unless you are a very experienced surfer or pro its not going to matter.

    Its just like foam density. Most of the average guys in the water aren't going to notice the density of their blank. Just like the stringer there is a softness or difference in the give of the board due to the blank. If you buy a Merrick of the shelf its a completely different blank from what the use for their guys. Foam density is the reason you don't see the pros using the eco-friendly blanks. They're too soft.

    Stringers are used to enhance the strength of the board. Nowadays with the new resins and high-tech cloths there's no need to strengthen the board with a stringer. Got ahold of some new cloth which led to us shaping a few of the epoxies with no stringer. The strength of the board wasn't an issue it was a good solid board. Problem being was the stiffness due to stringer. The stringer really adds to the board not just in flex but in actual spring back.

    Over the years if you've noticed the progression of Firewire's boards from indestructible with no stringers to the use of rail stringers and now to their "new" flexible stringers.
     
  19. Roy Stuart

    Roy Stuart Well-Known Member

    Jan 27, 2013
    The blank might change the resonance, but changes in flex are insignificant.

    Flex as it is described by just about everyone in the industry is almost impossible to achieve on shortboards. One of the reasons for this is the pressure distribution under the hull, another is the position of the two fulcrums ( the rider's feet).

    We were pumping the whole board flex thing starting in '94 using what I now think of as first level or entry level thinking. In reality it is far more complex and although boards which flex in a land test feel different, it's almost always because of changes in resonance rather than the 'twang' which is being erroneously marketed at present.
     
  20. MFCondor

    MFCondor Well-Known Member

    426
    Nov 30, 2013
    Dang man, This is good stuff. I'm learning a lot about stringers and their role. Thanks for the great input.