Fish and minisimmons

Discussion in 'Global Surf Talk' started by mattinvb, Mar 22, 2016.

  1. mattinvb

    mattinvb Well-Known Member

    593
    Sep 9, 2014
    So a few years back I first heard of minisimmons shapes, and always thought that one of these days I'll get one, but it was never that high on my list of priorities. Fast forward to today, and I have the cash to go to my local shaper and order one. My dilemma is this:

    I have longboarded off and on for years. Yeah it's fun to set your line and trim, walk to the nose, all that crap. However, I've always had much more fun trying to fit in turns, cutbacks, etc. and do my poor attempt to surf more progressively than a lb inherently allows. As a result, I've tried all manner of shortboards, single fins, thrusters, quads, fun boards, fish, etc. and they all have their time and place depending on my mood. I picked up a retro twinzer fish design with glassed on wooden keels a couple of years ago, and it has been a blast and one of my go to boards- I love it. However, when the waves start to get get below waist high, my fish starts to bog down/lose speed down the line and not really do what I want it to (I know the shape was designed for lined up surf like point breaks). Enter the minisimmons, and also my concerns.

    I've read how minisimmons are great for knee to thigh high surf (something we have in abundance in the summer), and I'll get all this speed, whatever. I've also heard/noticed that every video I've seen recently of pretty much any groveler type boards including simmonses, are all in waist high surf or bigger. People also talk about how these boards come alive in chest high surf... My question is this: in knee to thigh high surf, is a minisimmons really that fantastic and going to allow me to carve a bit more than a longboard (and my fish), or do I just need to suck it up and realize that when it's that small out i need to haul out the log and accept my fate (rider ability notwithstanding)? I don't want to drop a boatload of $ for a board that isn't really going to be all that different from my fish, especially when I could use the cash to convert my garage fridge to a kegarator.

    Sorry for the novel. if it bugs you, you can go tune a meat whistle.
     
  2. LBCrew

    LBCrew Well-Known Member

    Aug 12, 2009
    In my experience, my minisimmons (5'5) works best in surf in the waist high range. Knee to thigh high... not so much. And the smaller it gets, the more punch the wave has to have. Knee high gutless surf does not call me to grab the minisimmons. Waist high, fat, high tide waves... ok. Low tide knee high, hollow peelers... ok. What I'm saying is, the parameters that my minisim is the "best board choice" for is very narrow.

    Your mileage may vary...
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2016

  3. Big Wet Monster

    Big Wet Monster Well-Known Member

    938
    Feb 4, 2010
    Just picked up brand new simmons yesterday and surfed it in chest high high tide with some push in ocnj. From the 2 hrs i surfed it, I can agree with LB. I heard it can catch waves like a longboard but I didn't get the feeling. I am starting to realize I need a longboard to round out my quiver for tiny days. It did go FAST AS H3LL though and got around sections I wouldn't be able to with my other boards. It wasn't best conditions for it but felt like I could take it out bc the waves were fat, the paddle was sort of long and I haven't surfed in a longtime.
     
  4. DawnPatrol321

    DawnPatrol321 Well-Known Member

    Mar 6, 2012
    I didn't use to think this way but I believe there is NO replacement for a LB. It's a different feel all together. I do believe there is a place in the quiver for a mini sim though, but I don't think it can "replace" a LB, nothing rides like a 9ft LB like a 9ft LB.
     
  5. Mitchell

    Mitchell Well-Known Member

    Jan 5, 2009
    I'm not sure anything is ever really fantastic in knee high surf. I get bored longboarding in tiny waves, and I find the mini simmons is about the same. My experience is that anything in the thigh high range and a bit walled up and the mini simmons starts really getting fun and if its glassy the speed and flow is a real rush. It will carve a lot more than your log, and generate effortless speed in mushy 2-3 foot waves moreso than any fish i've ridden. If your worried about the mini simmons not being all that different than a fish, you shouldn't be concerned about that...its VERY different.
     
  6. CBSCREWBY

    CBSCREWBY Well-Known Member

    Feb 21, 2012
    I like my mini simmons in fat thigh to waist high waves. Hollow and steep I'm screwed because of lack of rocker; I'm sure a better surfer would fend better.
    My favorite thing about my mini is the ease of transporting it. It's nice to carry a 5'7" board as opposed to a 9 footer down a windy beach!
     
  7. ClemsonSurf

    ClemsonSurf Well-Known Member

    Dec 10, 2007
    This may be semantics but a MS isn't supposed to be a board that carves. You can definitely make some hard turns but if you're expecting to load up a bottom turn and blow out the top of a thigh high wave you might want to invest in a ski. The way I understand a MS is an extended nose ride with trim and the possibility for some turns.
     
  8. LBCrew

    LBCrew Well-Known Member

    Aug 12, 2009
  9. garbanzobean

    garbanzobean Well-Known Member

    257
    Sep 15, 2010
    I find the MS shapes work fine in anything except maybe really quality overhead surf then they can be made to work if that is what you want to ride. S-turning (carving) soft faces (which can be shoulders on fun sized surf?) is where I have the most fun on 'em. A nicely sized one (short) works A-OK in about anything a long as you remember to step on the corners to set the rail hard from my experience. And every shapers version of one is different, seen them all over the map from postage stamps to some that look like shortboard grovelers w/ pointed noses. So what defines one? I would say a 12-14" tail block and at least 4-6" shorter than your height w/ skegs at the rear corners? But then I see SUPs that someone tags as a MS which I don't grok.
     
  10. garbanzobean

    garbanzobean Well-Known Member

    257
    Sep 15, 2010
    This looks like the definition of happiness.
     
  11. Barry Cuda

    Barry Cuda Guest

    My idea for the function of a mini-summons is an egg. Nice carving tool, but with lots of paddle power as well. And yes, longboards have a permanent place in my quiver as well. I own 2 presently, an August (8'10") and a GS Competition Round Tail (9'2"). The GS is even great in head high waves; very fast for a longbaord, and maneuverable as well.
     
  12. mattinvb

    mattinvb Well-Known Member

    593
    Sep 9, 2014
    maybe my scale is off, but I would call that thigh to waist high, especially around the 1:15 mark.

    I'm talking about waves like this Five.jpg

    edit: I jsut watched that video again, and now im not so sure about the size difference between what he was riding and that pic...dammit
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2016
  13. mattinvb

    mattinvb Well-Known Member

    593
    Sep 9, 2014
    That's what I was concerned about. It's those gutless knee/thigh summer days where a lb will get you in and down the line, but is really kinda too big to do any sort of carving or cutback. Basically trying to replace my lb on those small days.
     
  14. Mitchell

    Mitchell Well-Known Member

    Jan 5, 2009
    IMO, you can't replace the longboard with a mini-simmons in waves as small as the one in your picture. You can (barely) ride a mini simmons in waves that small, but you will bog out of the wave trying to turn/cutback.

    The mushy waves in that video posted earlier are a blast on a mini simmons.
     
  15. DawnPatrol321

    DawnPatrol321 Well-Known Member

    Mar 6, 2012
    That's kinda what I was thinking. Can take a LB down the line on that wave and cruise / trim but that's about it.
     
  16. LBCrew

    LBCrew Well-Known Member

    Aug 12, 2009
    Good observation... My answer would be based on the fact that Bob Simmons did not invent the mini simmons. The mini simmons is a groveler based on the principles of hydrodynamics Bob Simmons studied and applied to planing hulls. So I guess the bottom line would be... it has to be a simmons longboard, but in miniature form... designed as a planing hull with a wide square tail, a wide round nose designed for maximum lift, and two keel fins on the corners, to be considered a mini simmons.
     
  17. heyzeus

    heyzeus Well-Known Member

    190
    Oct 7, 2014
    That's ankle or shin high in the pic. Not truly rideable on anything except a true tanker. In the vid I would call that knee or maybe thigh high and totally fishable or simmonsable.
     
  18. OldSoul

    OldSoul Well-Known Member

    347
    Nov 7, 2011
    you can ride a simmons in that small surf- but you will just be doing the same thing if you were on the LB. BUT when the slightly large sets come in you will be thankful you had the simmons to tear the wave up a little more than if you were on that log. I say get one shaped- there is a market for them if you dont like it you shouldn't have a problem selling it to someone.
     
  19. Mitchell

    Mitchell Well-Known Member

    Jan 5, 2009
    'nother attempt at a mini simmons type board. I've got a 5'5" like this one for the spring/summer. This one is 5'8" x 22" x 2 1/2" The extra size is intended to make it a winter boards for small waves. relaxed rocker throughout. The big channel in the rear 18" is flat to vee inside the channel out the rear, and also outside of the channel. EPS/Epoxy....came out really light. used 2 layers of 4 oz on the deck and 1 layer of 4 oz. on the bottom. Tried to use as little resin as needed for hot coating. Don't ask my why i keep the lame airbrushing attempts....its a damn battle...that i keep losing.

    [​IMG]

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    Last edited: Feb 26, 2017
  20. mrcoop

    mrcoop Well-Known Member

    605
    Jun 22, 2010
    love my fishcuit and its a lb replacement...its great in knee to thigh...now if your talking knee or less...forget it...lb is about it, but for me, not worth it when its ankle to knee, even with lb. I have tried riding my fish in head high and i was out of control...like I was skateboarding 50 mph with lose trucks...absolutely hated it...but waist and under, freakn love it! Still need to try a mini simmons.