Fish and minisimmons

Discussion in 'Global Surf Talk' started by mattinvb, Mar 22, 2016.

  1. Kanman

    Kanman Well-Known Member

    May 5, 2014
    Dude that thing looks hot. Wanna shape me one???
  2. BassMon2

    BassMon2 Well-Known Member

    Jan 27, 2015
    No such thing as a LB replacement. Waves aside, it's a style thing. Like saying you can replace an acoustic guitar with an electric. Sure in some situations you can, but they ate two diffrent things. Iv only had my mini since November. Hadn't had it out in anything under thigh high. But at thigh high I'd prefer it over a LB for reasons others mentioned. Also noticed that i am liking it best in stomach- chest high stuff with just a tad of steepness. Not fat, but not standing straight up either. Thing freaking flies. It's just begging for cutback after cutback. Freaking love the thing.

    Mitchell, sweet looking board! I seen that style tail on a few minis before i had mine shaped. I'm intrigued. Looks like some fun. Seems like a good choice for a bigger mini to give it more range in the turn department. Mines short at 5'2, which i belive is a big reason i can whip it around as easily as i can. But if i ever got a bigger one I'd like to try a tail like that out

  3. mrcoop

    mrcoop Well-Known Member

    Jun 22, 2010
    yea I get it...however, for me, it is..aint gonna ride a lb and thank god for a a fish and for boards like it in very small weak surf. To each his own, but just not into the lb thing.
  4. superbust

    superbust Well-Known Member

    Nov 2, 2008

    I ride this board more than I should but that is because it does everything I want it to. If its knee-shoulder I'll ride it, even in barreling conditions. Board does all the work.

    I should mention I learned to Standup boogy before surfing so this thing is the best of both worlds to me.
  5. BassMon2

    BassMon2 Well-Known Member

    Jan 27, 2015
    I hear you. I used to LB allot as well as SB. Put allot of thought into the quiver and got some boards made. Now I'd rather take a SB out in all waves. Still have the LB for the super tiny days or if I'm in the mood but it hasn't seen much water time lately
  6. Kahuna Kai

    Kahuna Kai Well-Known Member

    Dec 13, 2010
    I have been surfing minis for about 4 years now and it has been one of the best quiver decisions I ever made. I have long had a longboard, fish, and shortboard in my quiver, however a few years ago, one of my best friends got a mini from the local shaper, a 5'8" by 22 by 3, quad. He surfed the thing almost exclusively and would not stop talking about how much fun it was. After hearing all the hype, and watching my buddy catch a **** load of waves, I finally relented and got one myself, now I surf it about 80% of the time.

    I like a board with volume because I am a lazy individual. While the mini catches waves better than a log, it does not catch waves quite as well as a log. I usually sit in position just outside the shorties and just inside the long boarders. The thing I love most about the mini is the speed of the board. What you hear is true, it will make knee to waist high waves more fun because you fly down the line and you can turn almost like a short board.

    I have found it works way better in long period small waves as the board needs just a little juice to get up and going. I surf it all the way up to a little overhead as long as the surf is clean. The mini is not great in choppy waves because it floats so high in the water, you feel every bump in the surface. Also, what one of the guys said above, it does not quite turn like a shorty. Due to the width and speed, if you try to push a bottom turn or cut back too hard, you'll blow the fins out. The more powerful the surf, the more you have to draw out turns on it, but as far as down the line speed, I don't know of anything better. I also have a fish, but I don't usually bring it out until the waves are chest high or better. Anything under I go to the mini, and if too weak for the mini, I grab the log.

    I recommend adding a mini to the quiver, especially living on the east coast where the waves frequently lack size and power. The rumors are true, it will make crappy days fun, and fun days even better. I also recommend getting a quad. The twin fin minis are cool, just not as much drive or control through turns. My 2 cents. Hope it helps.
  7. LBCrew

    LBCrew Well-Known Member

    Aug 12, 2009
    Nice work, Mitch... Nothin' wrong with that spray job... or the shape. Next time you do a 4/4 deck with EPS/Epoxy, consider a deck patch. Why not?... you've got weight to spare, that you can take advantage of for better strength.

    What blank did you use, and did you seal it? Paint looks crisp.
  8. Mitchell

    Mitchell Well-Known Member

    Jan 5, 2009
    Thanks! Marko 6'2" Pescado Fish blank. No seal. Sanded the deck quite a bit with 150 and 220 grit to try and get rid of any remnants of those little pockets you get with EPS.

    Good advice on the deck patch...that would be one strong deck with three layers underfoot.
  9. salt

    salt Well-Known Member

    Mar 9, 2010
    That thing looks pretty dope. I wonder how grippy the shape will be. You got the quad setup like that, which, for a tail that wide you gotta have. But the deep channel running through the tail, I wonder if that would cause you to just go lightening fast, or would it cause you to ride like it's on rails...The downside to riding a quad sometimes. I got an almost identical outline, but with vee on the bottom at the tail. I think the vee loosens things up.
    In other words, I would test ride the crap outta that. LOL
  10. kidde rocque

    kidde rocque Well-Known Member

    Mar 6, 2016
    Yup, that shape looks super fun Mitch. Did you go flat in the nose, or did you go with a bit of planing hull in the entry?

    I've been looking into a new shape similar to Mitch's, particularly something by Hank Warner called the "Power Hull". I'm working now, I'll try to post some pix later.

    Couple of questions for nobody in particular:

    1) Mitch's back pair of fins are set closer together, further from the rails - I've been seeing this occasionally. What's the theory behind this?

    2) If I decide to go with a hull-type entry, what can I expect?
  11. Mitchell

    Mitchell Well-Known Member

    Jan 5, 2009
    The board still has some vee in the tail...both inside the channel and out towards the rails. This is my third board like this with a single channel in the bottom out the back. I have a 4'11" that i made myself, and a 5'5" Chemistry "Experimental" model. Its really hard to say what the channel does, because i haven't had any boards like this without the channel.

    Both the 4'11" and the 5'5" Chemistry have the same sensation of acceleration when you weight your rear foot in the sweet spot right over the channel, either pumping or just while trimming along. It might be the channel, it might be just the wide tail and flat rocker, but it takes off when your foot is over the channel.

    I respect Jason Bennett, Chemistry's shaper, and the fact that he puts a channel out the back of a board like this made for small mushy waves kind of validated my theory.

    Flat under the chest to about a foot back from the nose then maybe a bit of belly in the front foot. I honestly dont know sh!t about hulls, i just figure with flat nose rocker and a wide nosed board you want to keep the forward rails from catching so belly and a raised up rail is an easy way to do that. The Chemistry Experimental board has really cool forward rails for a short little board, almost like "chined" in the front two feet or so...the rail apex is lifted up above the bottom of the board with like a 2 inch-long blend to the bottom of the board.
  12. Mitchell

    Mitchell Well-Known Member

    Jan 5, 2009
    This setup is a departure for me.

    I usually like my small wave quads to have the rear fins forward and railward...shoved pretty close to the back of the front fins. I've always thought that kept the board looser and, with all four fins tipper out, provided lift (good for small wave board).

    I went with this because the Chemistry board i have has this fin setup, and i like the feel.

    \/ Love this board \/

  13. LBCrew

    LBCrew Well-Known Member

    Aug 12, 2009
    My guess is that putting your foot right over the channel forces water through the channel, and through the rear fins, rather than letting it roll out the vee and release off the rail. That's why you're feeling that squirt... and that's what channels are all about. If you want to experiment, try reducing your overall fin area and feel the difference. If you're familiar with downsizing fins feels like, it might give you a better sense of what the channel is doing.
  14. LBCrew

    LBCrew Well-Known Member

    Aug 12, 2009
    I feel like rear fins closer together give you a more neutral, thruster-like feeling. More stable, but faster down the line and more drive through turns.

    Belly... or hull... in the entry makes wave catching a little harder than flat, because it pushes a little more water. But once your up and riding, it planes higher and faster. It also smooths out the ride, especially if there's some surface texture. And, like Mitch said, it keeps the rail from catching. I feel it most when coming off the top. I kind of gets the rail out of the way of the lip of the wave.
  15. kidde rocque

    kidde rocque Well-Known Member

    Mar 6, 2016
    Thanks guys, sometimes difficult hydrodynamic theories baffle the crap out of me. Keeping it simple and surf-related (aka, "dumbing it down") makes it a lot easier to understand for tonto's like me.
  16. kidde rocque

    kidde rocque Well-Known Member

    Mar 6, 2016
    This is the modern hull shape I was looking at...opinions, prease.

  17. LBCrew

    LBCrew Well-Known Member

    Aug 12, 2009
    ^^^overfinned. I'd ride it as a quad, not a five-finner. Otherwise, looks fun.
  18. ClemsonSurf

    ClemsonSurf Well-Known Member

    Dec 10, 2007
    I had a SharpEye "The Sole" that was just like this board in nearly every way. I liked it a lot but I had a board that was very similar to it so I let it go. I kept it in a quad, they're my preference in most situations. The pics show it in a thruster bc I kept the back set when I sold it. This one had a slight vee throughout. I didn't notice much of an issue catching waves with this board but paddling out against the tidal push did seem like I was pushing a lot of water. It was skatey and fun on fat chunky waves but if they got walled up a bit the board lost some grip.

    IMG_2596.jpg IMG_2597.jpg
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2017
  19. garbanzobean

    garbanzobean Well-Known Member

    Sep 15, 2010
    So many fins on that Hank Warner. Maybe if the skegs on this one were very small 5 might not slow it down too much on a fast run down a lined up section. I have learned to pay major attention to the toe in on the fin placement. It has everything to do with the line the board likes and more important than fin size, quantity and shape. 80's-90's thrusters were almost always pointing right at the nose and about 1/4" toed in front to back. 70's fish w/ keels were mostly parallel w/ the stringer. These newish narrow tipped simmons hybrids would seem to benefit from only a 1/8" or so toe in for a slight top to bottom line w/ runs down soft sections and open long cutties in mushy faces. 3/16" toe might be too much on this one but it might be good if the wave and the surfers style mesh- a top to bottom line on medium (2' to 4' not real hollow) faces for this one?
  20. pkovo

    pkovo Well-Known Member

    Jun 7, 2010
    My 2 cents. I currently have a 6' longboard. I spent years riding longboards, but somewhere along the line I just stopped enjoying riding that much board. Much prefer something small and skatey even in tiny gutless surf. My first attempt at a shortboard I could use as a "longboard alternative" yoelded my 5'11" disc. Looks kind of fishy up front but withba single winged wide round tail in back. Love the board...really love it, but in the tiniest gutless surf, it cant compete with anlongboard. On the flup side, it has a much better upper range than I anticipated.

    My second attempt yielded a 6' simmons style planshape with a really wide arc tail. Had it made in the upper range of the volune that was suggested (46 liters or so). It was shaped for me when I weighed around 215lbs, now I weigh 185. Its a lot of foam. As a longboard alternative, it is spot on. Can ride it shortboardish, or trim and glide like a longboard. Its fantastic. However its very one dimensional. Any size or power at all, and its a bad choice. Before I lost rhe weight it was closer in size to what would be consideres an appropriately sized simmons, maybe still a tad large, but it was more versatile, but for gutless stuff its better as it is...overfoamed.

    When I look at that board you posted above, to me that tail looks less than ideal if you want the board for true bottom end waves. Dont get me wrong, looks fun as hell, but for true gutless stuff, sitting at a break with a bunchbof longboarders, I think you would be better with a more full tail. Just my 2 cents for what its worth (probably not a lot).

    I assume at somempoint Ill get back into longbording, but as long as Im fit enough to still ride an alternative shortbord instead, I will. I definitely dont feel like there are ang waves worth riding that I cant have as much funnon my 6' board as anyone out there on a longboard.