Illegals are great people

Discussion in 'Mid Atlantic' started by bennysgohome, May 4, 2016.

  1. Kyle

    Kyle Well-Known Member

    Sep 9, 2011
    Think about what deporting 12 million people would do to relations between Mexico and the US. I wouldn't be surprised to see ISIS pop up in Mexico shortly after we deport them all. Imagine that can of worms...
  2. ScobeyviIIe

    ScobeyviIIe Well-Known Member

    Nov 3, 2015
    I'll agree with you on this point. Not so much about Isis, but not deporting. Give residency (not citizenship) and tax normal income rates. 3billion could do a lot!

    Build a wall (jobs) with a deep moat so they can't build tunnels. Kick out the criminals. 1 strike and you're over the wall with a life vest.

    I don't think too many illegals will be running to sign up tho. If trump gets elected.... When trump gets elected, the illegals will think they're signing up for the Mexican holocaust.

  3. kidde rocque

    kidde rocque Well-Known Member

    Mar 6, 2016
    Well, right off the bat, the mainstream numbers that you used were the "Obama Deportation" numbers. Although you already conceded that, we'll start with that:

    From the period of the early 1970's until 2007, the I&NS (Border Patrol) used a statistic called "Voluntary Return" or VR for short. During this 40-year period when illegal immigration was at it's historical highest (several million per year, remember?), over 90% of illegal entrants from Mexico were given VR's. A voluntary return was just that---they freely returned to Mexico without a Formal Deportation hearing in front of an Immigration Judge. In short, millions upon million of Mexicans were never counted as being "deported".

    *NOTE: Illegal entrants from any other country besides Mexico were not eligible for VR, and were formally deported.

    Then, in 2007, GW Bush tried unsuccessfully to pass an Immigration Reform bill that was almost identical to the current administration's. However, it was defeated in Congress by both sides of the aisle. Bush's immediate response was to beef up the Border Patrol from 12,000 agents to 20,000 agents. He also passed LAWS (not bills) mandating "virtual fencing" as well as the big, expensive fence that is currently in place (and actually works well, despite what the media says).

    One of the laws he passed was that there would be *no more* VR's. As of 2007, every single illegal entrant is now formally "deported". This started with "Operation Streamline" in Laredo, TX in 2007 and spread to the other sectors within 1 year.

    In short, if VR hadn't been the Order of the Day for 4 decades, Obama's "deportation numbers" would be peanuts compared to previous administrations. The current administration is using semantics to appear tough on immigration.

    As far as Reagan's platform in 1984, I don't remember that. What I do remember is that Reagan passed the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986, which is *much* stronger than IRIRA of 1996. How do I know? Because I taught these subjects to prospective Immigration agents for many years.

    IRCA 86 is the foundation for our current immigration laws. Before then, it was not illegal to hire illegal aliens...IRCA changed that by mandating employment eligibility (you know that I-9 Form you have to sign whenever you get hired?), and imposing fines against employers who *knowingly* hire illegals.

    IRIRA 96, in short, streamlined efforts to reinstate prior deportations by taking away their rights to an Immigration hearing. As well, it expanded several statutes making many more *legal* criminal aliens fall under deportability charges. It was a great tool, but nowhere near the impact of IRCA. Get my drift?

    If you were born and raised in San Diego, I'm assuming that you're not old enough to remember the days of "Colonia Libertad", the Soccer Field, or Smuggler's Gulch above IB. Literally thousands and thousands of people running through gigantic holes in the old chain link fence every night as the sun went down. It was on the news every night. I lived in IB and witnessed it personally.

    Why don't you ask some of your old buddies in SD what it was like back in the day? It was like a war zone out there.

    In 1994, San Diego Sector started "Operation Gatekeeper" and positioned themselves in static positions from IB to Jamul, then started building a series of fences all the way to Glamis. Ask the people along the border if the fences work. They aren't perfect, but it's no longer the Wild Wild West out there.

    So, ask me some questions...and I'll continue to tell you the truth. I don't have any agenda. I only know what I've personally seen and been tasked with for a very long time.
  4. kidde rocque

    kidde rocque Well-Known Member

    Mar 6, 2016
    Probably not much. Mexico despises us, but we both keep a "Good Neighbor" policy...when in fact, the Mexican government actually encourages illegal immigration. Don't believe me? Google "Mexican Immigration Comic Book".

    Hate to burst your bubble dude, but there is already tons of evidence that Mexican smugglers are passing Middle Easterners through our southern border. I worked in Intelligence for over 10 years and provided reports on this. The conservative rags have been saying this for years, but for some reason, these facts never get covered by the mainstream media.

    Why is that?
  5. your pier

    your pier Well-Known Member

    Dec 2, 2013
    U mean the fokin rio grande?

    What a buncha kooks here
  6. DosXX

    DosXX Well-Known Member

    Mar 2, 2013
    I think many of our ancestors were just that. Mine were: Germany and Ireland
  7. White Sea Ape

    White Sea Ape Well-Known Member

    Dec 8, 2013
    Yeah thanks democrats your a bunch of fu cking losers who reward failure and punish success. Suck my di ck and swallow idiots
  8. yankee

    yankee Well-Known Member

    Sep 26, 2008
    kyles, quit while you're not ahead.

    KR on the slamboni dunk, with emphasis :cool:
  9. White Sea Ape

    White Sea Ape Well-Known Member

    Dec 8, 2013
    Leftist limp wristed cuckhold sanctuary city do gooder u. BUILD THE WALL
  10. White Sea Ape

    White Sea Ape Well-Known Member

    Dec 8, 2013
    See above ^
  11. yankee

    yankee Well-Known Member

    Sep 26, 2008
    You should learn to actually understand what's being posted here, or is the MD 2020 impairing your vision again KHACK sea ape
  12. kidde rocque

    kidde rocque Well-Known Member

    Mar 6, 2016
    Honestly bro, I can understand the anger and frustration about this issue. But rhetoric like "walls", gator-filled moats and shooting on sight only serve to discredit the people who want to seriously solve this issue once and for all.

    Don't forget that Conservatives have also tried to cram these lies down our throats in the very recent past, albeit with considerably less divisiveness and flagrant lawbreaking than the current administration.

    Let's just concentrate on the current fence, and maybe start actually enforcing the existing laws on the books.

    Is this too much to ask from our government?
  13. kidde rocque

    kidde rocque Well-Known Member

    Mar 6, 2016
    But we're discussing ILLEGAL immigrants, not *legal* immigrants (or the poor either, for that matter.

    If we're discussing the issue, please learn to delineate the difference between the two.
  14. Kyle

    Kyle Well-Known Member

    Sep 9, 2011
    Once again, personal attacks. I'm not sure where the disconnect is for you folks. I am not saying illegals are awesome, quite the contrary. I just don't think mass deportation in the answer.

    Kidd, I get where you are coming from. And your post was full of good information; however, nothing solution oriented what so ever. I understand you are well versed in this subject; however, I am wondering how you would fix things. Not how we got to the point we are at.

    All this crap about mainstream media, you guys are just using the common gimmicks to attack my stance. However; like I said, there are no quotes from the media in my posts, if I am wrong, please point them out. I already conceded the one statistic I used just to expedite this process and actually maybe get you guys to propose a solution aside from "gator filled moats".

    Now stank is a calling me a ***got that doesn't want the 2nd amendment in place....not sure how you could draw that conclusion just because I don't want mass deportation. Either way, you're just making yourself look small. If you don't like my what I proposed (and Ronald Reagan) proposed as a solution, then point out the flaws and provide a better one. Or, doing as you are doing now, and show you don't know a thing about the subject and can't think for yourself and just call me names. That's fine, all you're doing is conceding I am correct.

  15. Kyle

    Kyle Well-Known Member

    Sep 9, 2011
    You try to make me out to be some liberal douche even though what I support was introduced by Ronnie Reagan, the conservative demigod. Can't really have it both way Stank....
  16. kidde rocque

    kidde rocque Well-Known Member

    Mar 6, 2016
    First of all, nobody here gives a flying fvck through a rolling donut about Ronnie why are you bringing him up? Reagan's Amnesty started all this crap in the first place, and anybody that wants to point fingers at another party about the amnesty is no better than the current administration pointing their fingers at Bush for everything that's gone wrong since they assumed the mantle. It's on *their* watch, now. Take responsibility.

    Also, although you do not cite specific sources from the mainstream media, your talking points are used directly from those sources...which was my original point. Your limited knowledge of immigration is drawn directly from what you read. The current administration, as well as the major media outlets, have done an excellent job of marginalizing the conservative outlets (not that Fox News doesn't deserve it). But Breitbart and Judicial Watch are also legitimate news sources, although they obviously lean more to the right. Maybe reading a little of this, along with the usual helping of CNN or USA Today (just examples, don't call me out on this) would give both sides of the story and allow a prudent and reasonable mind to come up with a conclusion that follows something in the middle, right?

    I didn't immediately give you my theory on an immigration solution because I was giving you a counterpoint to one of your original arguments. So, here's my take:
    Last edited: May 7, 2016
  17. kidde rocque

    kidde rocque Well-Known Member

    Mar 6, 2016
    1) Mass deportation won't cost nearly as much as our government would have you believe. We already have all the law enforcement and judges in place. So how would it cost us so much money?

    Obviously it would not be good judgment to go around knocking on doors and asking for papers like Nazis rounding up Juden. Instead, USE THE EMPLOYER SANCTIONS LAWS UNDER IRCA 1986. Strong fines and jail time already exist under these laws. Go to the places that we already know are immigration law abusers (we all know the usual suspects, including construction, packing and processing, restaurants etc) and check workers. No papers? Ship 'em out. If they have fake documents or imposter birth certificates, prosecute them to the fullest extent. Send them a *real* message.

    When illegals know that they cannot be hired and may possibly go to prison, they will self's happened before. Research "Operation Wetback" from the Eisenhower years. It's completely possible to deport 1 million and watch the other 10 million (30 million?) self deport. Money saved.

    2) Strengthen E-Verify and use it 100%. There are still loopholes and bugs that need to be worked out, but if the government were serious about it as they were about Obamacare (a much larger boondoggle), E-Verify would be a workable system.

    3) Force Social Security to provide our government with every single fraudulent SS#, as well as duplicated numbers and information. Currently, our government is using the SSA as a Catch-22 by saying they can't get the information we need to find out how badly our system is being played by illegals. This is straight up BS. Find the culprits, track them down, prosecute them and ship 'em out. While in intelligence, we were able to find out everything on everybody by searching out SS numbers.

    And from my personal experience, I'm telling you that the American people have *zero* idea how badly our system is being abused by these people. Spend 2 weeks in an immigration office, and you will firmly believe that the streets of America and its southern neighbors are literally lined with fraudulent or imposter documents. It is so ridiculous that it is surreal. Really.

    4) Replace illegal workers with legal workers from all around the world. There are people that are much poorer than Mexico or Honduras, believe me. Croatia, Belarus, Indonesia, Sri Lanka for starters. And, to top it off, these people are also most likely to return to their home countries once their tours of duty are completed.

    We do this by adjusting the current laws on H2A and H2B nonimmigrant visas. Don't you think that the world population would salivate to get their hands on a visa that would allow them to legally work and earn money in the U.S.?

    Increase the number of visas and double down on those who exploit the process. Every single nonimmigrant would be put into the USVisit tracking system (fingerprints, photos and personal info) with an "expiration date". If said nonimmigrant hasn't left the country by that date, ICE agents will be given that particular case to expedite.

    I could go on and on, but these 4 suggestions would be a clean and quick way to solve our current mess.
  18. Barry Cuda

    Barry Cuda Guest

    I agree with your assessment KR, except for above ^^. Not that it is wrong, but rather, that something is missing. And that is, the REASON most Americans have no idea, is because they just don't give a fuuck about all of this because their perception is that "it doesn't affect me, so why should I care?"
    It does affect them, but 95% of Americans are way too dumb to realize anything that is not Dancing with the Stars. Therefore, no mater whom is elected, it will not change;after all, why change something that doesn't affect me. right???
    just opinion....
  19. Kyle

    Kyle Well-Known Member

    Sep 9, 2011
    Sorry, had to edit your quote, too many characters.

    Kid, I appreciate your argument. I also appreciate you keeping it about the issue and not some lame attack on my character because we disagree.

    You and I agree almost entirely...if fact, when it comes to mass deportation you and I are saying the same thing. Don't go around kicking in doors, secure the border and go after those who hire illegal aliens, pretty sure I stated that almost exactly. I also stated the federal government needs to actually enforce the laws on the books, which you seem to agree with via the SS card idea you put forth.

    As far as where I get my info, I am very much a fan of Judicial Watch; however, I formed my opinion on my own using information from a multitude of news sources (including Judical Watch and I do not believe in a path to citizenship, I do not believe any of these people should have access to government programs. I only disagree on mass deportation which I clearly stated. I am a believer that you go after the employers and law makers benefiting from illegal immigration. Once you do this, like you said, the majority will self-deport. Problem solved.

    I brought up Reagan because some folks around here try to paint me as a liberal propagandist. I was pointing out how I am not that and using my support of a Reagan idea to show this. You continue to say I am misinformed; however, if you read me posts you will see I basically said the same thing you did above. Force the feds to actually uphold the laws and crack down on illegal employers....I am failing to see where I am SO misinformed compared to you. I didn't get in to H2A or H2B visas because from what I have seen, you are the only one that can converse that deep on the subject. Look what happens when I try and actually discuss the issue, I get attacked as a liberal douche. By your logic, everyone on this site is badly misinformed...

    One question though, why do you want to replace illegal workers with legal workers from other countries? Why not replace them with Americans? If you don't believe the jobs numbers put out by Washington, then you must concede Americans could use these jobs more than legal foreigners, no?

    Operation Wetback, lol, oh how different the world was 50 years ago.
  20. Kyle

    Kyle Well-Known Member

    Sep 9, 2011
    As for those who do not self-deport, they should pay a stiff fine that goes to local government and a path to permanent residency. Not citizenship. No right to vote or ability to access government assistance programs. I think if we put this on the table, most, if not all, will go back.