This only means that these people miss out on one of the best parts of the surfing experience. In the same way, you can teach a man to draw, sculpt, or paint; he could continue to produce items to make money, get famous, etc...that's no different than your example. Art is about expression, and creating it doesn't mean you need to wear funny clothes and read poetry. Art can be the way you dress, the way you play music, dance, surf, or even cook food. Rather than turn the cold shoulder, I challenge you to EMBRACE the artistry in surfing as the opportunity to present your own style to everyone else, to ride waves in your own unique way. I look at the people who redefine themselves, not just in the water, but in the way they dress, speak, and live, and admire their courage to be someone NEW and FRESH, separate from the cookie cutter mold that even Quiksilver wants us to be. Guys like Miki Dora, Gerry Lopez, and Tom Curren each brought something new to the table. You don't have to be on the WCT to do it, though these guys are all great examples.
Most art is judged by it's ability to evoke emotion in the person viewing/hearing/reading/eating the piece of art. Art elevates something that's worldly and mundane... pigments/clay/words/food... to something of a more spiritual level... something you FEEL. It might make you angry (Mapplethorpe) or sad or happy or excited... but all good art evokes emotion. I had a college professor who was an artist and writer, and one time he told me, "Art is not asprin." What he meant was that creating art is not a selfish act to make the artist feel better (although it might). It's not about "expressing yourself" alone. It's about conveying an emotion that the artist is feeling TO someone else, through a MEDIUM of the artist's choice. So when we watch a particularly gifted surfer doing his/her thing, in a very fluid, creative way, are we "getting the message" the surfer is trying to send to us? Is there a message at all? Is the surfer driven to ride a particular wave a particular way because he/she is trying to convey some kind of FEELING from them to us? Or are they just having fun, and just by chance, we're there to see it and appreciate it?
good luck with this one the interpretation of art is one of the oldest questions in philosophy. Is a painted board art, by definition, yes. Is a hand crafted surfboard art- I think so... but Is going surfing art? I like watching surf movies, thats art. But so are porno vids I guess. here is one: is spanking it art?
Damn straight. The idea of evoking a feeling to the viewer is VERY important indeed. Hence, a kid making finger paints is no more an artist than a kook flailing around in the shorebreak. I watch Tom Curren's style, however, and could compare it to one of the Renaissance painters...innovative, articulate, refined. Likewise, Christian Fletcher would strike me as more of a Van Gogh...a little "out there" but very creative and very interesting to see. I guess my point is two-fold: 1. Just like an art student, a surfer must develop and refine his/her skills to create something that others would call "art". 2. Art's comprised of much more than just paintings and sculptures, as we so often assume. Like ....(somebody on this thread, can remember who) said, art invokes feeling in the viewer. It doesn't have to be created in a studio by some beret-wearing fruitcake.
not buying it..most really good surfers I know do it for the challenge to themselves. They approach a wave from the perspective of 'can I pull X off? Not, I want to do X so people will think my ride was artistic.
Like I said before...these guys are missing out. Being a good drawer doesn't make you an artist. Creating art makes you an artist. You can draw the best f#$%ing picture on earth, but if it's a drawing for the sake of a drawing, then it's not art. If you ride Pipe only to win the WCT and win the cash...that ain't art either. If you look at the people that really rip though, and listen to them in the interviews and surf movies, then you know there's more to it. Even hardcore pro's like Andy and Kelly start talking about how much they love surfing and how it's still so fun after all the years of contests, etc. I watch them and can literally feel the drive and determination and CREATIVITY(!!!). Remember when Momentum first came out? Brand new sh!t, never been done before (mostly, anyway). That's art. Looking at the wave and thinking "hmmmm what if we could approach it in this way instead of what everyone else is doing?" They developed the skills to pull it off and created something new that the world looked at and stared in disbelief...you don't have to call it art. Call it whatever you want...but that's what art's all about.
so...if art requires an audience (as a couple of posters seem to suggest), what happens to the art interpretation of surfing when you're surfing by yourself with nobody watching? if van gogh threw his paintings away after painting them and nobody (but him) ever saw them, would they still have been art?
sure. just because no one saw it doesn't mean it could've been great, but the world would have lost the opportunity to see it. that's why for many people, including me, it's fun when people see your surfing and tell you what they think.
This statement can be interpreted in a lot of ways.... ego, etc. But in the context of this discussion, you could argue that surfing for you, and the others you refer to, see surfing as "performance art" ... but one that requires a lot of high degree of athletic ability and practiced skills. And if that is so, then you can't argue that art doesn't need an audience to be art. It's only art by virtue of the fact that it DOES have an audience. Van Gogh's works in the garbage can are "paintings"... but they're not "art" until someone calls it art. That being said, there are art competitions all the time. The question is, how can such a competition be judged fairly? In surfing, is it the highest punt? The highest spray? The smallest radius turn?
i'd say it's judged on the best athletic performance. highest punt, biggest spray, most critical maneuvers are criteria that can be associated more with a physical action instead of an artistic expression. surfing may have an element of artistic expression, but you can apply that theory to any sport to a certain extent
All art requires some degree of skill, hence my finger painting analogy. I tend agree with you on the first part...sorry, I think I gave the wrong impression in my previous post. Van Gogh's trash can painting would have been art when found...otherwise, it's a piece of rubbish. Likewise, a little soul surfing on a deserted Norcal point isn't necessarily artwork. It's a great experience, but the experience is limited to the one guy. If he gets photographed against a sweet sunset or watched by a passing hiker, then his work can be appreciated and admired. It's not necessarily ego (though it can be!) to want to be seen. I like to think my surfing can capture the passerby and make them stop for a moment and enjoy what they see...granted, I'm not a great surfer, so anyone who really knows what they're looking at probably wouldn't be too impressed. I know I probably won't ever get a big barrel at Pipe or pull at sushi roll, but the journey along the way is the art, developing those skills and getting new feelings, and enjoying the positive response as my friends and I watch each other. As for the contest deal, I agree there too. When the guys are all pulling the same stuff, it's not so interesting...that's why surf vid's and free surfing interest me so much more. There's less pressure, so people get a lot more creative (not to mention the crazy waves guys are charging nowadays).
It almost sounds like the more competitive you are as a person the less you view surfing as art but the less competitive the more you think it's an artform.
i'd agree with this. when i go surf, yes, i have a great time and express myself yada yada, but my primary goal is to rip and perform well physically, like i would in any other sport. in this regard, i would consider the photograph a piece of art. capturing an athletic performance through photography will freeze the emotion, thought and physical exertion through a medium which can be modified by the artist (photographer) and therefore be turned into a work of art (the photo).
never really thought of surfing as an art. I'm doing it for my own pleasure, exercise, performance, and to enjoy being in the water, not for other "viewers", appreciation by others, or to express something. I dont really see much practical difference between surfing, as skiiing, snowboarding, or even skating/skateboarding, and while i dont do much of those things, i never thought of them as art either even though i like to watch all of them.
Yea... isn't the caliber of the artist measured by the PRODUCTS he/she produces? Can surfing be an art in itself if there is no tangible product? I'm still hooked on the judging aspect of surfing. We all know that while there is some objectivity, there is much more subjectivity... just like in art. A perfect example is aerial surfing... some people think aerial surfing is given too much weight. Some think not enough, due to it's level of difficulty. But to many, aerial surfing is not as aesthetically pleasing to watch as a smooth, powerful, full rail cutback... or radical, lightning fast, bucket chucking snap off the top. Without a doubt, surfing above the lip is the direction professional surfing is going. It will likely never come back. So in that respect, counting rotations and measuring height and/or distance, or gaining points for grab/no grab, etc... will make judging much easier, because they're objective, quantifiable things you can assign points to. But what about how it LOOKS. Watching a triple bi-pass might be amazing to watch, but it's not what many would consider "aesthetically pleasing."
it depends on the judges too. all of the asp judges are excellent surfers themselves so they can appreciate what is being done for the given contest conditions. That plays a huge factor in it. There are the individual tricks but that is part of the score. The bigger part is the judges awarding a score based on the tricks done on that particular wave.
I don't know if you watched the Portugal event, but there were some pretty sick heats going down. I think the judging has gotten better. They've got their head wrapped around the idea of aerials a little better than before. What's involved, what makes one "better" than another, while still rewarding moves done on the wave or in it too. There were high scores doled out for some aerials, but some scored big on tubes and critical snaps and the like too. So, it's not just the aerials getting the big scores. I think the pros are at a level where they're going to surf the wave using the maneuvers that best fit what they are given. Be it aerials, snaps, roundhouse cutty or the old fave...tube. Most aren't going to pass up a good tube for a punt. Granted some are going to lean more toward airs while others favor carves. But, if the waves have good air sections they better be mixing in some aerials, or yeah, they're going to get left behind. It's all about maximizing the potential in the most critical sections.
